Meeting Malkmus - a Pavement podcast

We've got Rachel from Portland in the house this week on The Pavement Top 50 Countdown. Rachel and jD discuss her Pavement origin story and unveil song number 14.

Transcript

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[0:00] Previously on the Pavement Top 50. And there it is at track 15 from Wowie Zowie, Rattled by the Rush. What are your thoughts on Rattled by the Rush, Ross from Fife? Well, I already said since I came to it last, Wowie's not my jam. I love it. It's still a Pavement album. It's never the one that I go to. Right. and Rattled by the Rush might be the last pavement hit that I actually heard oh really? Yeah, I don't think I heard it until at some point in the early 2000s I bought, I can't remember what it's called the DVD, Slow Century Slow Century, yeah I think maybe that's the first time I ever heard it oh, because they showed the video on that Yeah, I can't remember if it's the proper video or not. I know that they had to re-release the video because it was making people sick. People used to be such fucking pussies. Hey, this is Westy from the Rock and Roll Band Pavement.

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[1:14] And you're listening to The Countdown. Hey, it's J.D. Here, back for another episode of our Top 50 Countdown for Seminole Indie Rock Band, Pavement. Week over week, we're going to count down the 50 essential pavement tracks that you selected with your very own top 20 ballots. I then tabulated the results using an abacus and a calculator watch operated by the power of friendship. How will your favorite song fare in the rankings? You'll need to tune in to find out. So there's that. This week, I'm joined by pavement superfan Rachel from Portland. How the fuck is it going, Rachel? Going pretty well, JD. Thanks for having me. No, it's my pleasure. It's good to have you here. Well, let's not waste any time and get right to it. Rachel from Portland. Talk about your pavement origin story.

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[2:07] Hmm. Well, I first started listening to Pavement in high school and I am sure Cut Your Hair was the first song that I heard and it's just so catchy. And I don't even remember like where I heard it. I'm sure it was maybe on the, maybe on the radio, but it really grabbed me. There's something about just that it's so happy and it's so silly and I'm a very silly person and really gravitate towards that kind of music. So I got really curious about Pavement, but you know, Back in the 90s, CDs were really expensive. This was before I've heard a lot of people on your show talk about downloading tracks from Napster. I think I'm a little bit older than that, or maybe I'm a little technically not inclined.

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[2:51] So I made a lot of mixtapes with a tape recorder next to the radio to record songs off the radio. Um so i actually don't really i don't have a super clear memory of of like how it evolved from there i know there were a few other pavement songs that i heard and really liked like specifically trigger cut and and you know just some of the other really um happy ones but but i was also you know um you know getting really into the grateful dead and and other things so i didn't i didn't really pursue my love of pavement a lot but it but it always had this really special place in my heart. I think that when you, uh, the music that you listen to when you're growing up, it kind of just never, like, it always takes you back to that place in a certain way.

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[3:38] Um, so, uh, fast forward and I was, I was in high school, so I was a little too, um, you know, at that point I was kind of like going off and seeing some concerts. I never got to see pavement at that point. Um, but then, uh, fast forward a bunch of years when they got back together for their, reunion tour in 2010, and they'd released... Oh, your dog is so cute. Oh, just a second. Just one second. I'm sorry. Okay. Yes?

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[4:10] Hello? That doesn't typically happen, because typically the door is locked, and that means I'm recording, so I apologize. Now I'll be doing some editing. Are they? Yes, no problem. So they got back to there for their reunion tour and they released Quarantine the Past, Um, which, yeah, which is, is really interesting because in some ways, you know, the albums, there, there aren't some bands I listened to the albums like straight through and some I kind of pick and choose the songs and pavement. I really love listening to the albums themselves, um, and kind of each song in context of the album though. Sometimes I'll, you know, I, I like them more and more. So, um, I, they were coming to, they were coming just outside of Portland to Troutdale that year, and I'm pretty sure it was sold out. And I just had this feeling of like, I have to go. It just like wouldn't, kind of wouldn't leave me. And so I ended up buying tickets from some like strangers off of Craigslist. And I can't remember which of my friends was supposed to go with me, but whoever was supposed to go couldn't make it. And the day before the show, I randomly had, I was going to hang out with a woman that I had met through the yoga studio where I teach. And we were hanging out at her house. It was like our first friend hangout. And I saw that she had pavement tickets on her fridge. Like they were paper tickets.

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[5:40] And I said, are you going to the pavement show tomorrow? She said, yes, I love pavement. And I was like, can I go with you? And so I ended up going with her and her crew to the show. And it was one of, it was at the time, and this was 2010, I've been to a lot of concerts, but it was one of the, the like best shows I've been to in terms of just the energy on the stage and the way it just, the way it made me feel so alive and just so like joyful, you know, with, and, and one thing I love about Pavement is kind of this, this range of emotions that they go through. They have this very, you know, there's this whole thing about them being like slackers and being, you know, but, but they're very smart and they're very silly. And they kind of go from, you know, they kind of, they kind of go from these, like, they go through some really deep themes in their songs. So, you know, which we'll talk about when we get to our song for today. So I, I was after that, I was just so I was so hooked again. And I started like devouring the albums a little bit more and more. And so at that point, I started listening to them a lot more. And then they came back in 2022 to the same venue in Troutdale, Oregon.

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[6:47] And I was so excited. I mean, I bought the tickets as soon as they went on sale. I couldn't wait. And it was a great show. It really, really was so fun. But I couldn't actually, from where I was standing in the venue, I couldn't really see what was going on on stage, which is kind of a bummer because they're so fun to watch them and their interactions. Um but after that show I just had this feeling that was 22 and I had this feeling of I I need I need more pavement I need more pavement now and so I looked at their whole tour schedule and it was like Australia and and I just couldn't do it there was no there was no way I could like drop my whole life to to go on pavement tour you know and they and they just don't I mean they were playing a lot that year but they don't.

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[7:30] They don't play that much generally. And so in January of 23, when I saw them announce Iceland in July, I was like, I'm free those days. And then the cincher was that there's a nonstop flight from Portland to Reykjavik. I was like, nonstop. Really? Yeah, there's a lot of nonstop flights. That's beautiful. And there were a lot of bands at the time that were doing residencies at Harpa, like Papin did. Disco Biscuits did one. um freeze mcgee did one and wilco did one so um and a bunch of my friends are into those those bands and they had gone um for those shows so i just booked the flight and i and i was just like i'm gonna go i bought the tickets for the show and i bought specifically um the front row of the balcony because i really really wanted to see everything that was happening on stage um Um, and I was planning on going alone, you know, just cause there's so many bands that, you know, when I go see shows, I love going with friends and, you know, I'm, I'm a big fish fan and there's so many people in the world who are, who are into fish and they, and so like, when I go see fish, I have to decide, like, should I go with these fish friends or this friend with pavement? There's like, none of my friends are into, almost none of my friends are into pavement, um, which is, which is really sad. And so, um, I was just going to go. You've got some work ahead of you. Well, yeah, yeah, for sure.

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[8:56] And so, but two of my girlfriends really wanted to go to Iceland. And so they joined me on the trip and we ended up extending the trip a little bit. And we went around the whole, we rented a camper van and went around the whole island for a week, which was just out of this world. And I'm so grateful to, and neither of these women like pavement. They both came with me to the first show, but they were not into it. But one of them did all of the planning. She did all of this research and planned out our entire trip around the island. And all I did was listen to as much pavement as I could possibly get my hands on for one.

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[9:35] And so we had an amazing trip. They came to the first show. They weren't into it. And they didn't come to the other shows, which was fine because I'm like, I got to read. I got to read really hard. But I met some really lovely people, other pavement fans. There and the shows were beautiful they played quite a few repeats which were um the second night felt a little like i expected some repeats the second night it felt a little disappointing i was like how could there be so many repeats but by the third night they were mostly repeating stuff that i really like so i was okay with it um and i knew they were gonna do that you know i kind of expected it um there's a it's tough because they took what 70 70 songs on the road I forget. Somebody told us it was either 60 or 70. I was just re-listening to the episode with Steve West that I think maybe came out very recently. And he said 60. He said they took 60 songs on the road. That's who it was. Yeah. Yeah. And then they play 30 songs a night. So you're going to get some repeats. Yeah. Yeah. Which I expected. They did advertise B-sides and rarities for Iceland.

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[10:42] There were only so many, but it still was wonderful. And Harpa is a gorgeous venue. It's beautiful. It was also really funny. There's like no security in Iceland, you know? And so like, I'm so used to like hiding all my things when I go into a show. And like you know nobody they barely looked at my ticket that was pretty funny yeah it was um they they were they were lovely shows i had a really sweet moment um uh i think it was after the first show i was walking with my friends we were maybe a lot we were maybe two blocks from the venue and it's you know it's it's late at night but it's still light out because it was july in iceland and i saw this this kid he was probably maybe seven years old he looked like he He was, I don't know if he was Icelandic or if he was somehow related to the band. I think I've seen pictures of him in the front row from those shows. So maybe he was connected somehow.

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[11:37] But he was this kid and he was walking, I think, with his mother. And we were a few blocks from the venue. And I hear the kid just like, I hear him singing like, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do. And I just perk up and I start singing it with him. And he looks at me and his eyes just light up. And I was like, there's this connection that happens when people, you know, when it's this, it's familiarity. And we just, we didn't speak any words. We just had this like these huge smiles at each other and kept singing it as we were walking. So it was really cute. The magic of pavement. Wow. Cool. I really feel that.

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[12:14] Yeah. Oh, and then, and then after that, you know, they, they, they played those Brooklyn shows. I really wanted to go to them, but I couldn't go because I had to be in New York the next week. I actually had jury duty that week, so I just couldn't get to New York to go to the Brooklyn shows last year. But then this year, and then they played South America this year. I was like, I can't get to those either. I've got a lot of dreams of traveling for music that I can't quite make happen. But then they just played Bumbershoot in Seattle, which is only three hours away. way. And I was like, I was really torn because one of my dear friends was having a big blowout for his 50th birthday that same night. And I was just like, the pavement's not going to play that much longer, I don't think. And he said, I would never fault you for going to see music. So I went by myself. I took the train up to Seattle and had such a great time. And part of the reason I actually wanted to come on your podcast was one of the things that was so interesting to me about being at that show was, After being mostly in the balcony in Iceland, I did go down to the floor for the third night of that run. But I was determined. I was like, I want to be front row center for this show.

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[13:33] And the way that the Bumper Shoot is this really great festival. It's set up in Seattle Center. It's really beautiful. And so I was standing kind of to the outside of the stage where they were going to play as the band before them was finishing. And as soon as they were done, I kind of started walking towards the middle. And there was a spot on the rail I could have taken, but it was off to the side. I really wanted to be more central. So I went all the way to the center and I ended up, you know, like fourth or fifth row. But it was still an hour before they were going to start. And so there were all these people who were also crowding around, like waiting for them. And so a bunch of us ended up sitting down and just chatting. And these two people that I was sitting with and who I talked to a lot, And we, you know, we saved space for each other during that time. It was so fascinating. The, it was this, it was this man and this woman and she had, she had just three weeks ago turned 21.

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[14:28] And, and I know I just, I couldn't believe it. And so I asked her, and so I was like, tell, tell me how you got into pavement, you know, channeling you Diddy. And, and so we had this amazing conversation just about how she got into pavement and her favorite songs and everything. thing. And one of the things that I thought was so interesting, you know, we all know that, you know, pavement's having this TikTok resurgence. I'm not even on TikTok, so I don't know, you know, like all that stuff. But, but it was so interesting to me that there are, you know, and, and, oh, and almost all the, there was a lot of people who were, I'd say in my age range, slightly older than me, you know, maybe like in their fifties who were there, who were like really enjoying the show. But all the, most of the people who are right around me were, were in their twenties and it was so fascinating. And so the idea to me that there are people who, there are people who love pavement, like who are, who, who love pavement and love talking about pavement and love seeing pavement as much as I do, but have a completely different relationship with cut your hair than, than I do, you know, or that people who got into pavement, you know, when they first, when they first came out, it's so different. Um, and I was so fascinated by, by all of that. And then one of the weirdest things was that they didn't play cut your hair at the show. And, you know, I mean, they've played it in every other show I've been at, so it was okay. But I was actually really shocked about it. I was like, you know, they're catering to their new fans and they're not catering to their original fans.

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[15:56] It's very cool to think that, you know, all this touring and the TikTok stuff has really led to a new generation enjoying this band. And that's just a testament to, you know, the music they made, right?

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[16:18] For sure. And it's interesting that they, you know, like in some ways I really appreciate that they're not making new music as pavement. Like I love the new music that they're making. Otherwise I'm a really big fan of, you know, Stephen Malkin's and the Jicks and all of that work. And, and I'm really excited about the hard quartet stuff that's coming out. But, you know, there, there is a part of me that, that wonders, you know, what that would be like. And, and as much as I, in some ways, I wish like pavement hadn't broken up, like the stuff that Stephen Malkin, you know, created afterwards is so, so rich and so brilliant that, you know, I know that that was supposed to happen in that way. Yeah, I liken it to every time I make wishes about changing my past, you know, I think, I can't do that. I have two kids and I don't want anything to happen to them. I don't want to wish them away by accident. That would be terrible. Yeah, you want a butterfly to take your kids away. You know, the same thing goes with this man. Yeah. If they'd been broken up, you'd be on a totally different life path. Totally. Well what do you say rachel from portland that we take a break and then come back and listen to song number 14 yeah i'm into it all right let's do that hey.

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[17:39] This is bob nastanovich from pavement thanks for listening and now on with a countdown down.

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[17:47] 14...

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[21:19] This week, we're on the horn with AT&T. How are you feeling about song number 14, Rachel, from Portland?

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[21:29] I love AT&T. The song is super fun. I really love the way in which, like, the verses go into this, you know, when he goes into the, like, whatever, whatever. And there's a kind of screaming thing in it. It almost feels like the whole song, like, could be complete. And then it like starts again with the second verse, which I really love. Um, I just go, it takes you on a really cool journey. And I also love to me, there's so much like meaning in it. And there's also so much, um, that I don't understand and feels a little bit nonsense, nonsensical to me, um, which, which I, which really, which I also love. Cause that, that really feels part of like the essence of pavement, you know, like there was something really deep and there was something that's really nonsense. Sense and and it's almost like i almost feel like as a band they like both want you to want to figure it out and they're like don't be a fool and try to figure it out i love that yeah i can see that my first talk with spiral stairs ever he talked about the mystery of the band and you know how the first uh couple eps they were just spiral stairs and sm people didn't even quite know on the the first EP, whether the band's name was Pavement or whether it was Slay Tracks.

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[22:49] So they loved that mystery. So who knows, that might have carried forward rather than in Persona, but in the music. That's a nice assessment.

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[23:07] So what else do you think about when you think about this track? This is from Wowie Zowie. Is it one of your standout Wowie Zowie tracks?

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[23:22] Yes and no. I mean, I love Wowie Zowie. It was, you know, I never submitted my top 20 ballot to you because I didn't find out about your podcast until after the ballots were in. And so when I, when I go through my like top 20, there's like, I don't know, 14 or so that are, that are very clearly in my top 14. And then there's, and then there's like 15 songs vying for the last six months. So this wasn't in that original, um, uh, roundup for me, but it is a song I really love. And, and there's most things on Wowie Zowie that I, you know, that again is an album I really enjoy listening to through. Through um and uh and I you know I would never I would never I would never skip this song when it came on it's um uh and now and now that I've like spent so much time listening to it for this podcast it it definitely might it might up its way into my top 20 a little bit um yeah but there's so many good songs on Wawi Zawi it's hard to it's hard to you know um I don't I don't think there's any on wawi zawi that i don't really love that much yeah i put you on the spot yeah, so um what do you think this one's do you have a do you have a take on this on this one i do i do have a take on it and i'm just gonna say i'm gonna preface.

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[24:48] This by saying that um i i'm a life coach and so i think that i'm um coming to this from a little bit of like a life coach you know uh way of viewing it so i also will say that you know that's just my perspective and i i don't need to be right on any of this this is just the interpretation that that i came up with based on reading it um okay so a couple things that so first of all um at&t you know obviously it's a um you know phone company communication company so i think that that in essence there's this idea about, um, the, the way in which we are like in communication with each other, but also the way in which we are in communication with ourselves.

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[25:30] Um, and the way in which that can be like clear and the way in which that can be clouded a little bit. Um, I did, I did go online and just kind of like look up the lyrics and read some things. And there, you know, there's a lot of different, there's a lot of different controversy about the lyrics in terms of, um, the way that they're printed like on the, you know, if you look, if you look at the lyrics, there's a lot of people who are like, no, that's not right. So, so, you know, who knows, who knows about that stuff. But, um, Uh, I, I personally think that there's a, well, let me just tell you, let me tell you what I'm feeling. All right. So, um, so when it starts with this, maybe someone's going to save me. I did, I did read somewhere that it's, that that's kind of like, um, punking Oasis a little bit. I don't know if that's true, but I, I kind of like the idea of it. Um, but, but to me, what it really means is like, I kind of feel that this is somebody who, you know, this song is really kind of speaking about somebody who is almost like afraid to take action in their own life and is kind of like swimming in the soup of what they, of like what they think they're supposed to be doing, you know, whether that's like the corporate ladder or, you know, or having success in certain ways. And so this idea of like, maybe someone's going to save me is, is kind of like, I'm not going to take my own action and I'm just going to kind of wait for someone else to come in and create direction.

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[26:54] And, and so I think that kind of, to me, I really feel that in the, like, the laps I swim from lunatics don't count. Like, I'm like, I think a lot of us take, you know, we do, it's not like we're totally inactive. It's not like we're sitting on the couch all day, like couch potatoes, but we're maybe doing things that, that are, you know, helpful to others, but not necessarily helpful to ourselves, you know, or, or, you know, like, not, not the most urgent or meaningful things that we need to do, even though, even though they're, you know, it's action. So the things that when it when it says that open up your stockings, pull out of the things you never wanted from room service calls. To me, that really has to do with like, The the ways in which, you know, like the limiting beliefs or the bad habits that we've that we've gotten either like from our parents or from society or from the people who cared for us and the ways in which our brains kind of took that and and and turned it into operating systems for how we move through the world, which, you know, I think in general, those are very helpful in the sense that they got us through what we needed to get through. But they're not always helpful because they somehow sometimes they really limit us and they create like false beliefs that keep us from achieving what we want to achieve in our lives i know i'm getting i'm getting real deep here this is just the first verse.

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[28:17] No this is cool i'll tell you what because i'm a little high right now and you're taking me places rachel from portland this is all right so keep at it okay cool so um so the whole idea was like open up your hands and let me see the things you keep in there in there. Like that to me really speaks to me about this idea of like, of like being vulnerable and like showing your true authentic self. And what I think the song is, is kind of challenging is this idea that like.

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[28:46] That it is like, that's how we make real connection. And at the same time, it's really vulnerable and uncomfortable. We don't always want to do it. Right. You know, like and so, and so that, you know, that's kind of, That's kind of how I see this song, that like somebody who's really kind of afraid to connect with their own full, authentic, true self and is kind of experiencing the discomfort of, you know, living in a world where they're like putting on a face.

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[29:19] Does that make sense? Yeah. I mean, does it make sense? Maybe you haven't thought about that song this song in that way i haven't thought about it in this way for absolute sure no this is cool um yeah keep yeah keep going i was i had a question slips away, Okay, yeah, let me know if you remember it. So then because then it goes into the like, whenever, whenever I feel fine, which I just love the riff on this. It's so high energy and fun. And then it gets into those really silly, like, like groovy, groovy kitty. But, um, but it's this idea of like, whenever I feel fine, I'm going to walk away from all this, all that. And it's kind of like, I don't know if you've heard people say, I'm sure I'm sure we've all heard people say things like, Oh, I can't do this because of this. Or like, you know, when this thing happens, then I'll be then I'll be able to do this. And it's almost like, wait, you know, I hear the character like waiting for, you know, waiting for that someone's that's going to save me. And when I feel better, then I'm going to do these things as opposed to just taking the action to make themselves be ready to do it. You know, like I'll walk away now as opposed to when I'll walk away whenever it is that I feel better.

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[30:32] And this is where we get to one part where there was a, there's a, what's the word I'm looking for? Discrepancy in the lyrics. The lyrics that I found say, yeah, the lyrics I found say, you skinny, skinny people don't like that when you calm them. But I read online, somebody said, no, it's when you call them or when you call on them, which also works for AT&T. I think both ways work in terms of this interpretation. Like, like people don't like it when you're not authentic with them, you know? And so, or when you, in terms of a calm them, if it is call on them, then it could be like, Like, you know, almost this feeling of fear that if you ask someone for something, then, you know, it's like almost a fear of our own neediness, if that makes sense. You know, like everybody has needs, but nobody wants to be needy, you know, like we all want like, but we all have needs. And so I think if you're, you know, if it's like, if it's saying, you know, people don't like that when you call on them, if that's the lyric, then then there's almost this idea of like, a fear that if I ask someone for something, then they're gonna, you know, then then it's very vulnerable. Again, it puts you out there in a way that could be considered uncomfortable.

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[31:49] Very, very interesting look at that. And it's nice that you prefaced it with your occupation. Because it's... No, where I'm going with this is we all bring our shared experiences to these songs. And you've shared some experiences with people as well. Well, so you're probably bringing all of that, you know, like you've got, yeah, you've given us some stuff to think about. Anyway, that's where I'm going with that. Yeah, for sure. And I wonder if the band would like laugh at me and be like, no, this isn't what it's about at all. I can honestly say all 50 episodes of this, the band would laugh.

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[32:40] I think all 50 episodes. it's like but be grateful as well because they get to meet all all of y'all so that's the cool part as for um in i started university as a poetry major creative writing and poetry and, that's all you do in the first in the first semester is analyze poetry and it's like 90% of it is putting yourself out there, you know, on the limb, right? Most people, most people don't. Well, Rachel from Portland, do you have anything you'd like to plug? Um.

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[33:25] I don't think so. There might, there might be a, a time coming soon where maybe a pavement song might be sung by me somewhere, someplace, but I'm not going to, I don't think I can say too much more about that. So if you happen to be in Portland, you know, you can find me somewhere. Get it recorded and you can submit it to the pod list next year. Oh, maybe I will. See?

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[33:54] That's good. All right. That's what I've got for you. Uh want to thank rachel and i want to definitely thank pavement for at&t and all the other songs that we've heard so far next week we are going to track number lucky number 13, so uh hit the roulette wheel put it all on 13 and just some jd sent you and in the meantime wash your goddamn hands.

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