Oct 04 2023 35 mins
Hello! This is Krista with Episode #185 on the Wag Out Loud pawdcast. Have you checked out all of the amazing trusted brands that I highly recommend? These are products that I've researched and tried that I know, like, and trust. Also products that will help your dog to thrive. So just go to WagOutLoud.com And check out the trusted brands section. And I've negotiated discounts for most of the products, so why not see what can make a difference in your dog's life? And don't forget to also check out the resources page as well. It's filled with some very important info for both you and your dog.
Many people think that with their dogs, tummy troubles, that itchy skin or infected ears are all a result of a food allergy. But true food allergies are really pretty rare, only affecting about 1- 3% of dogs. So most likely your dog's issues have developed over time and would be considered a result of a food intolerance. The main culprits of food allergies and intolerances are wheat, chicken, beef, and dairy, as well as additives and chemicals that are commonly found in highly processed dog food.
Welcome to the Wag Out Loud pawdcast, where we are obsessed with bringing you helpful tips on canine health care, nutrition, and overall wellbeing. If you'd like to support the show, check out the amazing online events, products and resources that I personally recommend on the Wag Out Loud website. I'm your host, Krista and I'm super excited to be bringing you yet another tail wagging episode.
Sharon Vincuilla is an occupational therapist who did her doctoral residency in the Los Angeles community-based mental health system. She developed group and individual programs for adults living with serious mental illness to support nervous system regulation, executive function, and participation in daily activities. Sharon also has over 15 years experience as a dog trainer and behavior consultant, specializing in rescue rehab, anxiety, and aggression. Sharon has come to recognize that beneath the struggles of both dogs with behavior problems and adults with mental illness lie trauma, sensory hypersensitivity, and nervous system dysregulation. So, she started Human Canine Collaborative to offer virtual coaching and classes to teach humans how to support themselves AND their dogs through trauma recovery, reactive behavior modification, and stressful circumstances by learning how to co-regulate with each other.
Hi there dog lovers, how lucky are we to learn from today's guest, Sharon Vincuilla, and she is going to cover co-regulation; an intuitive approach to trauma recovery for both ends of the leash. So Sharon, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much, Krista. I'm really delighted to be here today,
I can't wait to learn from you. So before we get started, I'm going to ask you to introduce yourself. And just give us a little more about your amazing background and why you started the Human Canine Collaborative.
Sharon’s Background and Findings
Yeah, thanks for that prompt. My name is Sharon and my pronouns are she/her. And I'm a Doctor of Occupational Therapy and a Canine Behavior Consultant. I began my career in dog training, working as a dog trainer at a kennel facility doing boarding and training and group classes and private sessions. And at the same time, I was volunteering with my own dogs, taking them to visit nursing homes and children's courts and schools. And it was through that volunteer work that I got introduced to occupational therapy. And I decided to go back to school because I wanted to do animal assisted therapy, full time. And while I was doing OT, I specialized my training in community based mental health, as many mental health providers do, I was searching for more understanding of myself, and also wanting to be able to better support people who are struggling with various mental health conditions, who also live with dogs. And I noticed it through that work that there were a lot of people who found a lot of support from their dogs. And there were a lot of people who were struggling to be able to live with dogs because of their symptoms. And I also noticed this parallel between the symptoms that my clients were experiencing, my human clients who had experienced trauma, and the dogs who I'd worked with who were behaving with reactivity and aggression and anxiety. And I noticed that same parallel in myself in my own struggles with mental health and anxiety. And I realized that the common denominator for all of us is nervous system regulation. When we can't regulate our nervous systems, we have a hard time doing the things that we need and want to do every day.
Well, you're in the perfect spot with your background and doing this and I think every listener here today is going to learn something for themselves. You don't have to be suffering from some major trauma to get something out of this, right?
That's absolutely right. Every human has a nervous system and all of us will benefit from learning about our nervous systems and understanding what our bodies are trying to tell us.
Right. And I hate to say it, but our nervous systems never switch off. Well Sharon the cool thing is, I think we all know by now that there's tons of studies out there that have demonstrated the calming and distressing effect that our dogs do have on us. So I love that we're going to dig a little deeper on the relationship that we have with our dogs and how they can help us. So let's talk about trauma. How do you define trauma specifically, when it comes to talking about our trauma, as well as our dog's?
Trauma
Trauma, I look at trauma as any stressful situation that is beyond one's ability to cope. And so I really like that definition, because it highlights how subjective trauma is, right? So what's traumatic for me is not necessarily going to be traumatic for you.
That makes total sense. And people love to hear stories and examples. So what are some examples of some different types of trauma that we experience?
Trauma Example
Well, I'll get I'll be real specific and tell you about my own experience. Sure. So my experiences that have been traumatic, have involved all kinds of things. I mean, I can remember being very young, and being on the school bus. And there were some boys behind me that were teasing me. And they were poking me. And I, and they were saying something like, Hey, little girl. And I was like, at a new school. So this was all like, everything was kind of overwhelming to me. And I was very sensitive, in my touch system. And in my sound system. So like hearing things and feeling things on my skin could feel very overwhelming. And so having having these kids behind me, saying things that sounded like taunting, and then poking me unexpectedly, that was a really traumatic situation. And I didn't have the skills to be able to cope with that. And so that has stayed with me, throughout my life.
That's a great example. And I can just think, I mean, for both us and our dogs, major life events, like, you know, natural disasters, a move, a divorce, being attacked. You know, I think of all of these that could have a lasting effect on our lives.
Traumatic Situations
Yeah, yeah, there are so many situations that result from the environment, from weather, but also situations that arise in relationships with other people that can have a have an impact on us, because we because of the fear that's involved, and the threat to our lives, or our survival. But also, because of that, going back to that idea of like, we don't have the skills to cope, or when we don't have the skills to cope. That is when our nervous systems really can overreact and change permanently, in order to try to improve the coping ability. Should there be a next time?
Well said, that makes it easy to understand. So let's go back to the title of this episode, you're going to talk about Co-regulation. What does that mean, in relation to our central nervous systems?
What is Co-Regulation?
So I'm gonna define self regulation first. Yep. So self regulation is shifting your nervous system from one state to another. And we have three states. So one state, and each state is kind of like a setting that the nervous system goes into where there are different combinations of organs that are turned on, so that we can do different things. So one setting is called immobilize. That's our rest and digest setting. And then we also have a mobilized setting, that's our exercise, play and fight or flight setting. And then we have a social connected setting. And that's where we have all of our listening abilities turned on and our ability to talk to others. And the part of our brain that is engaged with teaching and learning is also turned on in that setting.
Okay, so that's self regulation.
Yeah, exactly. So co-regulation is when you shift the nervous system from one state to another, with another. So with humans, human parents co regulate with their infants all the time, the baby cries and then you go and pick them up and swaddle them, or rock them or coo at them. And that helps them to calm their body and shift into a calmer state. And they can't do it. By themselves. They don't have the ability to. And we can also co regulate with any other living beings. So we can co regulate with dogs. Also, we can co regulate in terms of doing an activity with our dogs that supports our nervous system, and theirs in shifting to another state.
That's the good stuff right there.
Absolutely.
Well, Sharon, I know that you have had a journey with your own dog Muggins. And I know you shared the story with me. I would love for you to talk about that again now with our listeners.
Sharon’s Journey with Muggins
Yeah, thanks for asking about that again. So I adopted Muggins. I also use they/them pronouns with logins, just to give myself some practicing with using those pronouns. So I adopted Muggins when they were three and a half months old, from the shelter. And they were having a hard time getting adopted because they were very stressed. And they really wanted to interact with people, but they also were just very impulsive at such a young age, and were biting everything. And so they were biting people who are coming to meet them and trying to adopt them. And so I, knowing that I had the skills to be able to help a dog like this, I decided that would take Muggins home. And at the time, I was recovering my own post traumatic stress after graduate school. And after moving across the country, in the middle of COVID, to support my sister in law who had suffered a brain injury. So, so I was in between jobs I hadn't, I had just started to rebuild my business. And I had all this time available. And so I adopted Muggins. And the first thing I noticed about Muggins was that Muggins was sort of like, had a lot of nervous system inflammation, I guess is the way I like to think about it. Like they would get really overwhelmed really quickly with being around a lot of activity. So if we went somewhere to like a park, where there's kids playing or other people walking their dogs or squirrels M uggins would be really overwhelmed, would do a lot of zoomies. So a lot of running around me in circles, not really having any conscious thought about it, would want to just grab everything that went near their mouth. So if I walked past them, they would grab my pant leg, I moved my hand close to their mouth, they would be grabbing my hand, if I had a toy, they would grab the toy. And then they would just not really have a lot of rhythm with their sleeping and waking cycle and their appetite cycle. So they would have a hard time falling asleep. And they would like sometimes they would not be hungry at all. And then other times they would be intensely hungry and irritable. And there didn't seem to be any sort of regular pattern like this wasn't happening at the same time of day, every day.
And dogs thrive on that.
Yes, yeah. We always hear about our we always know about dogs who come and get us when it's time to eat. Right, right before we even look at the clock.
Just routine that you know, they feel comfortable when there's a routine. So poor Muggins didn't have one.
Exactly. Yeah. And so that was what I tried to do first was to help Muggins have a routine specifically for eating and sleeping. Those are like the foundations of the nervous system and of survival, right. So I would really pay close attention to Muggins’ signals, like if they started to get sleepy, like if they were blinking their eyes more, or laying down a lot instead of playing, then I would direct them into our bedroom where it was dark and cool and less stimulation and then help them go to sleep. And then I would pay attention to their activities or like their behaviors that might demonstrate that they're hungry, like are they poking around in the kitchen, or are they trying to bite more than normal? And then I would make Make sure that they would get food as soon as I thought they were hungry. And also, along with that I started to teach Muggins behaviors that they can use to tell me when they're hungry or to tell me when they're tired, so that they would have more of an awareness of what they need and then be able to tell me in an appropriate way, instead of an inappropriate way,
Right. Hey, Sharon, we are halfway through so I am going to take this opportunity to take a quick sponsor break and we'll be right back. Sounds great.
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And we're back speaking with Sharon Vincuilla , and this is just so fascinating. We're talking about co-regulation, and how we can help ourselves and our dogs. So both ends of the leash. And Sharon, you were just telling us about your journey with Muggins. And how you kind of reshaped Muggins to be more of a normal dog. And didn't you tell me that the litter was abandoned at four weeks old?
Muggins’ Trauma
That's right, yeah. Muggins had to littermates. And they were born in Tennessee. And they were dropped off at a shelter down there at four weeks old. And then they were lucky enough to be put into foster care for a while. And then they were brought up to New York where I live. And that's where I found them.
And that's a lot of trauma for a new puppy.
Oh, yeah, I mean, new puppies, puppies need their canine parents, right, until they're seven or eight weeks old, maybe even longer. And they also need a lot of like we were talking about before consistency and routine. And so Muggins moved in, and their litter mates moved around quite a bit before the age of two months old.
So how did you get Muggins to be a more stress free, calm, dependable dog?
Working with Muggins
Well, it was a combination really, of providing Muggins with behaviors like skills that they could use to communicate with me. providing them with a sensory diet. So as an OT, I have a lot of training on sensory processing and how the way our nervous systems detect and integrate sensory information contributes to behavior. And in OT, we use something called a sensory diet, which is like a prescribed combination of activities and experiences throughout a day, that provide an individual with the right amounts and types of sensory input to help their nervous system to be more rhythmic and balanced. And so for dogs, well for dogs and humans, engagement in movement and balance activities is really nourishing, and engagement in touch based activities, especially touch that provides that nourishing yummy deep pressure that we feel like when our dog lays on our lap or when we hug another human. And then dogs also need a lot of opportunity to smell. They need to engage in sniffing things so that they can get information about their environment. And when they're sniffing, they're also taking deep breaths. And breathing is a really great way to support the nervous system.
So let's get into it. How does co regulation work? So what would it look like co-regulation between ourselves and our dogs?
Co-Regulation with Our Dogs
So co regulation is really it's helping the dog build skills, and it's helping the human build skills. So when I learned to co regulate with Muggins, it was partially supporting Muggins’ ability to communicate and regulate. But also, I had to work through my own trauma and learn my own skills to help my body to feel safer and calmer. And so when I work with a client, I help them to build awareness. So I teach them about the nonverbal cues of the nervous system, so that they can look objectively at what's happening inside themselves. Like noticing like, Oh, I'm kind of tense in my shoulders right now. And my heart, I feel my heart beating faster, and my palms are kind of sweaty, so I think I'm getting stressed, maybe I need to take a break and take a walk or do some breathing. And then also learning those nonverbal cues for dogs. So noticing that, oh, you know what, my dog is moving around a lot right now. And the sound of their bark sounds kind of high pitched, and they are chewing on something, they're not supposed to be chewing. So I think my dog is frustrated. And maybe they need me to take them outside to play or give them a to item or something like that. So by building awareness of what's going on with the body, we can have a better understanding of what is needed, and then we can take action to provide for those needs.
That is incredible. Well, do you think, you know, some people like to get their dogs from a rescue others like to go to a reputable breeder? Do you find more trauma in puppies from either of those?
Well, it really depends. If somebody is rescuing their dog from the shelter or a rescue, it's more likely that the dog has experienced stressful events, you know, like just being in the shelter is stressful because of the noise level in the shelter. Because they, the dogs don't have as much freedom to move around. Because they have to compete for attention, they don't just get the attention of one person. So those experiences can contribute to stress and, and you could see a result like I had with Muggins. Whereas dogs from reputable breeders are generally getting a lot more attention and socialization, there is less sound in their environment, because they're usually in a home. And they are able to get their needs met when they need things.
And I have to think that in this day and age, it seems like everybody is so stressed, not just stressed, but 24/7. We are in the fight or flight mode. And of course, our dogs take on our stress. And you hear about more people having panic attacks. So how do we move through different trauma with our dogs?
Do you mean like, what what do we do? Like, What specifically can we do to help ourselves?
Like I think of PTSD, you know, people that have PTSD, or just any of us that are triggered by certain instances, that put us in that fight or flight mode and stress and panic.
Advice on How
Yeah, I'm thinking of, I'm going to tell you about a practical exercise. And I'm also going to give some advice. So I think there is still a very large stigma around mental health and pursuing mental health support in our society. And I struggled with that myself, it took me a long time to be able to feel good about going to a therapist and to go regularly. But I think because a lot of people feel like if I need to see a therapist, that means I'm broken, or I'm sick, or there's something wrong with me. And I now believe that if you're going to a therapist, it's because you're human. All Humans need and deserve support to be our best selves. And if you're struggling with something where something is triggering you to have an unexpected response, and it's getting in the way of your ability to do what you need and want to do, then you deserve support. And there's no shame in that. I think that I think that's the best thing that you can do for yourself. And we also deserve to have good support for caring for our dogs. So pursuing professional help from a trainer or a veterinary behaviorist or a coach is great so that you can really be sure that like develop confidence in what you're doing with your dog, because it can be really... There's a lot of insecurity, I think when we're not sure of what to do. And I think working with a professional can really support your confidence that you're doing the right thing. And you're on the right track. So yeah, so it's like a double support would be best support for your dog and support for you.
Right. And you were going to share something that we can do ourselves right away.
A Practical Exercise
Absolutely. One of the best practices that I have started doing with Muggins is breathing. And so that means we sit down every day together. And I focus on some deep, slow breathing for myself. And then Muggins comes over and joins me and weighs down with me. And when they do that, I start rewarding them for taking a deep breath. So if I noticed their nostrils flare or their cheeks puff a little bit, those are signs that they're inhaling, and I'll just drop a tree in front of them. Or if I notice, they put their head down on my lap or on the floor, I'll give them a treat for that. Or if I hear them give a big sigh with a big exhale, I'll give him a treat for that. And so Muggins is getting feedback about what their body is doing. They're getting rewarded for relaxing and for breathing. And what I noticed is that two things, one, if I don't do this, or if I forget to do it, Muggins will come and ask me for this breathing practice, which helps me make sure I do it every day. And two, I noticed Muggins taking deep breaths on their own outside of this practice, whenever they need to relax. And that just makes me feel so good.
That's cool. Wow. And Sharon, I know I mean, it's been months and months and months since we first met. But you said something to me that we have to remember that each ourselves and our dogs need our own space. Do you want to elaborate on that?
We Need Space
Yeah, as a sensitive being, I'm a hypersensitive person, I also identify as neurodivergent. And so when I'm around other people a lot, my sort of like social capacity gets maxed out really quickly. And even like being with Muggins is a Muggins has a social demand, right? Muggins demands attention from me, and I have to talk to them and make decisions and give them guidance. So there's a social demand there with hanging out with Muggins. And so I need a break, I need solitude as part of my like regular routine, so that I have the ability to recharge and rest my senses and rest of my nervous system. And, and that means I need a break from Muggins too sometimes, and Muggins needs a break from me also, you know, like sometimes Muggins just wants to go take a nap and I see them and they look so cute, all curled up and one go over there and just give them kisses. And then when I do that, they just glare at me and get off the couch and go lay down somewhere else.
That's great. We have to remember that because, you know, if we don't take our own space at times, that's when you get a dog that is velcroed to your hip, and has separation anxiety. So there is a fine line. And I'm glad that you told us more about that.
Yeah, so glad you asked.
So before we wrap up today, Sharon, I know that you have tons of examples and stories where this co-regulation worked off the top of your head, you know, we know that it worked very well with you. And Muggins is there another client that you shared this co-regulation strategy with that change their life?
A Great Example
Mm hmm. Yeah, I just finished up last month with a client it was a couple and their dog, an 11 year old Shib Inu named Mandu. And they came to me because they were having a lot of trouble with feeding Mandu. and Mandu had a lot of noise sensitivity which had really become overwhelming I think it had begun with a smoke alarm and and then had generalized to any sound that sounded like a beeping sound and Mandu would just panic or start trembling, be really unresponsive and withdrawn. Wouldn’t eat. And so this couple really wanted their dog to be experiencing less anxiety and be more be able to be more present and relaxed and and they also were struggling with like not being able to go out of town because they were going through all of the jumping through all these hoops to try to feed Mandu. And they were just like, we can't ask somebody else to do this. So what are we going to do? So we did six sessions of coaching. And we also collaborated with their veterinarian. So what I wanted to do was I wanted them to explore medication for the noise sensitivity, and also to explore if there was any underlying pain. Because that can all like with noise sensitivity and difficulty eating, I'm always wondering about pain. And so Mandu did get a prescription. And then we also did co regulation, and we developed a sensory diet and improved Mandu’s communication skills and improve the owner's awareness of Mandu. And it was such a delight, our last session, we were just like talking about all of the things that were different. And they were really feeling like there was so much more ease with feeding Mandu, and he was eating better. He wasn't reacting to all of the beep beep sounds anymore. He was more playful. And they were they had planned a vacation to go out of town and they found somebody who was willing to stay with Mandu.
That's that's a huge success story. I love it. Yeah, cool. Well, Sharon, I know that you have a special offer for our listeners. So would you like to share what that is all about?
OFFER
Yeah, absolutely. I am offering a discount code. It's WOL so Wag out loud. And when you use that code to purchase anything from my site, either coaching, a recorded class or workbook, you will get 20% off
20 Oh my gosh, listeners take advantage of that. That's amazing. Thank you, Sharon, for that.
You're welcome. My pleasure.
And in relation to that, where can everyone find out more information about you and the Human Canine Collaborative?
You can go to my website, it's https://hc-collab.com. And you can also find me on Instagram, @holisticdogexpert, all one word.
Wonderful. And I'm going to have all of these links on how to get in touch with Sharon, on the show notes. So everybody can go there for easy access. And Sharon, I just want to thank you for all of your work and making such a difference. This, you know, the brain is just so complex in both us and our dogs. So for you to offer treatment options for us to live a better, less stressful, calmer, intentional life. I really want to thank you for that.
You're so welcome, Krista and thank you for describing it that way. I think especially that word intentional. I think that's really key when it comes to addressing behavior and mental health the way that I do. Thank you so much.
Well everybody go check out Sharon's site. Again, look for that link in the show notes. And I don't doubt that all of us have learned something new today.
Social Media:
IG: @holisticdogexpert
FB: https://www.facebook.com/HolisticDogExpert/
LinkedIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/humancaninecollaborative/
Thank you so much. It's been such a pleasure to be here.
Thanks, Sharon.
Thanks again to our friends at CBD Dog Health for sponsoring this episode. Check out all of their amazing products like CBD enriched hemp oils for separation anxiety or traveling needs, extra strength cannabinoid formulations specifically made for more serious conditions, like PTSD or pain from cancer. Salves to treat dry skin for dogs and other ailments, like hotspots and allergies, and all natural pet treats. All of the CBD Dog Health products are made to effectively treat your pet holistically and naturally. Help your dog thrive by using the code W OL for 20% off at CBDdoghealth.com.
Thanks for listening. You'll find some helpful links in the show notes and if you enjoy the show, please be sure to follow and listen for free on your favorite podcast app. And please, please share your feedback. Visit WagOutLoud.com for great product recommendations with discounts, amazing online events and fantastic resources. That's also where to visit our Bark About It page where you can suggest topics, guests or products. Be advised that this show offers health and nutritional information and is designed for educational purposes only. You're encouraged to do your own research and should not rely on this information as a substitute for nor does it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. If you have any concerns or questions about your dog's health, you should always consult a veterinarian or a nutrition expert. Have a tail wagging day and we'll catch you next time.
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Many people think that with their dogs, tummy troubles, that itchy skin or infected ears are all a result of a food allergy. But true food allergies are really pretty rare, only affecting about 1- 3% of dogs. So most likely your dog's issues have developed over time and would be considered a result of a food intolerance. The main culprits of food allergies and intolerances are wheat, chicken, beef, and dairy, as well as additives and chemicals that are commonly found in highly processed dog food.
Welcome to the Wag Out Loud pawdcast, where we are obsessed with bringing you helpful tips on canine health care, nutrition, and overall wellbeing. If you'd like to support the show, check out the amazing online events, products and resources that I personally recommend on the Wag Out Loud website. I'm your host, Krista and I'm super excited to be bringing you yet another tail wagging episode.
Sharon Vincuilla is an occupational therapist who did her doctoral residency in the Los Angeles community-based mental health system. She developed group and individual programs for adults living with serious mental illness to support nervous system regulation, executive function, and participation in daily activities. Sharon also has over 15 years experience as a dog trainer and behavior consultant, specializing in rescue rehab, anxiety, and aggression. Sharon has come to recognize that beneath the struggles of both dogs with behavior problems and adults with mental illness lie trauma, sensory hypersensitivity, and nervous system dysregulation. So, she started Human Canine Collaborative to offer virtual coaching and classes to teach humans how to support themselves AND their dogs through trauma recovery, reactive behavior modification, and stressful circumstances by learning how to co-regulate with each other.
Hi there dog lovers, how lucky are we to learn from today's guest, Sharon Vincuilla, and she is going to cover co-regulation; an intuitive approach to trauma recovery for both ends of the leash. So Sharon, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much, Krista. I'm really delighted to be here today,
I can't wait to learn from you. So before we get started, I'm going to ask you to introduce yourself. And just give us a little more about your amazing background and why you started the Human Canine Collaborative.
Sharon’s Background and Findings
Yeah, thanks for that prompt. My name is Sharon and my pronouns are she/her. And I'm a Doctor of Occupational Therapy and a Canine Behavior Consultant. I began my career in dog training, working as a dog trainer at a kennel facility doing boarding and training and group classes and private sessions. And at the same time, I was volunteering with my own dogs, taking them to visit nursing homes and children's courts and schools. And it was through that volunteer work that I got introduced to occupational therapy. And I decided to go back to school because I wanted to do animal assisted therapy, full time. And while I was doing OT, I specialized my training in community based mental health, as many mental health providers do, I was searching for more understanding of myself, and also wanting to be able to better support people who are struggling with various mental health conditions, who also live with dogs. And I noticed it through that work that there were a lot of people who found a lot of support from their dogs. And there were a lot of people who were struggling to be able to live with dogs because of their symptoms. And I also noticed this parallel between the symptoms that my clients were experiencing, my human clients who had experienced trauma, and the dogs who I'd worked with who were behaving with reactivity and aggression and anxiety. And I noticed that same parallel in myself in my own struggles with mental health and anxiety. And I realized that the common denominator for all of us is nervous system regulation. When we can't regulate our nervous systems, we have a hard time doing the things that we need and want to do every day.
Well, you're in the perfect spot with your background and doing this and I think every listener here today is going to learn something for themselves. You don't have to be suffering from some major trauma to get something out of this, right?
That's absolutely right. Every human has a nervous system and all of us will benefit from learning about our nervous systems and understanding what our bodies are trying to tell us.
Right. And I hate to say it, but our nervous systems never switch off. Well Sharon the cool thing is, I think we all know by now that there's tons of studies out there that have demonstrated the calming and distressing effect that our dogs do have on us. So I love that we're going to dig a little deeper on the relationship that we have with our dogs and how they can help us. So let's talk about trauma. How do you define trauma specifically, when it comes to talking about our trauma, as well as our dog's?
Trauma
Trauma, I look at trauma as any stressful situation that is beyond one's ability to cope. And so I really like that definition, because it highlights how subjective trauma is, right? So what's traumatic for me is not necessarily going to be traumatic for you.
That makes total sense. And people love to hear stories and examples. So what are some examples of some different types of trauma that we experience?
Trauma Example
Well, I'll get I'll be real specific and tell you about my own experience. Sure. So my experiences that have been traumatic, have involved all kinds of things. I mean, I can remember being very young, and being on the school bus. And there were some boys behind me that were teasing me. And they were poking me. And I, and they were saying something like, Hey, little girl. And I was like, at a new school. So this was all like, everything was kind of overwhelming to me. And I was very sensitive, in my touch system. And in my sound system. So like hearing things and feeling things on my skin could feel very overwhelming. And so having having these kids behind me, saying things that sounded like taunting, and then poking me unexpectedly, that was a really traumatic situation. And I didn't have the skills to be able to cope with that. And so that has stayed with me, throughout my life.
That's a great example. And I can just think, I mean, for both us and our dogs, major life events, like, you know, natural disasters, a move, a divorce, being attacked. You know, I think of all of these that could have a lasting effect on our lives.
Traumatic Situations
Yeah, yeah, there are so many situations that result from the environment, from weather, but also situations that arise in relationships with other people that can have a have an impact on us, because we because of the fear that's involved, and the threat to our lives, or our survival. But also, because of that, going back to that idea of like, we don't have the skills to cope, or when we don't have the skills to cope. That is when our nervous systems really can overreact and change permanently, in order to try to improve the coping ability. Should there be a next time?
Well said, that makes it easy to understand. So let's go back to the title of this episode, you're going to talk about Co-regulation. What does that mean, in relation to our central nervous systems?
What is Co-Regulation?
So I'm gonna define self regulation first. Yep. So self regulation is shifting your nervous system from one state to another. And we have three states. So one state, and each state is kind of like a setting that the nervous system goes into where there are different combinations of organs that are turned on, so that we can do different things. So one setting is called immobilize. That's our rest and digest setting. And then we also have a mobilized setting, that's our exercise, play and fight or flight setting. And then we have a social connected setting. And that's where we have all of our listening abilities turned on and our ability to talk to others. And the part of our brain that is engaged with teaching and learning is also turned on in that setting.
Okay, so that's self regulation.
Yeah, exactly. So co-regulation is when you shift the nervous system from one state to another, with another. So with humans, human parents co regulate with their infants all the time, the baby cries and then you go and pick them up and swaddle them, or rock them or coo at them. And that helps them to calm their body and shift into a calmer state. And they can't do it. By themselves. They don't have the ability to. And we can also co regulate with any other living beings. So we can co regulate with dogs. Also, we can co regulate in terms of doing an activity with our dogs that supports our nervous system, and theirs in shifting to another state.
That's the good stuff right there.
Absolutely.
Well, Sharon, I know that you have had a journey with your own dog Muggins. And I know you shared the story with me. I would love for you to talk about that again now with our listeners.
Sharon’s Journey with Muggins
Yeah, thanks for asking about that again. So I adopted Muggins. I also use they/them pronouns with logins, just to give myself some practicing with using those pronouns. So I adopted Muggins when they were three and a half months old, from the shelter. And they were having a hard time getting adopted because they were very stressed. And they really wanted to interact with people, but they also were just very impulsive at such a young age, and were biting everything. And so they were biting people who are coming to meet them and trying to adopt them. And so I, knowing that I had the skills to be able to help a dog like this, I decided that would take Muggins home. And at the time, I was recovering my own post traumatic stress after graduate school. And after moving across the country, in the middle of COVID, to support my sister in law who had suffered a brain injury. So, so I was in between jobs I hadn't, I had just started to rebuild my business. And I had all this time available. And so I adopted Muggins. And the first thing I noticed about Muggins was that Muggins was sort of like, had a lot of nervous system inflammation, I guess is the way I like to think about it. Like they would get really overwhelmed really quickly with being around a lot of activity. So if we went somewhere to like a park, where there's kids playing or other people walking their dogs or squirrels M uggins would be really overwhelmed, would do a lot of zoomies. So a lot of running around me in circles, not really having any conscious thought about it, would want to just grab everything that went near their mouth. So if I walked past them, they would grab my pant leg, I moved my hand close to their mouth, they would be grabbing my hand, if I had a toy, they would grab the toy. And then they would just not really have a lot of rhythm with their sleeping and waking cycle and their appetite cycle. So they would have a hard time falling asleep. And they would like sometimes they would not be hungry at all. And then other times they would be intensely hungry and irritable. And there didn't seem to be any sort of regular pattern like this wasn't happening at the same time of day, every day.
And dogs thrive on that.
Yes, yeah. We always hear about our we always know about dogs who come and get us when it's time to eat. Right, right before we even look at the clock.
Just routine that you know, they feel comfortable when there's a routine. So poor Muggins didn't have one.
Exactly. Yeah. And so that was what I tried to do first was to help Muggins have a routine specifically for eating and sleeping. Those are like the foundations of the nervous system and of survival, right. So I would really pay close attention to Muggins’ signals, like if they started to get sleepy, like if they were blinking their eyes more, or laying down a lot instead of playing, then I would direct them into our bedroom where it was dark and cool and less stimulation and then help them go to sleep. And then I would pay attention to their activities or like their behaviors that might demonstrate that they're hungry, like are they poking around in the kitchen, or are they trying to bite more than normal? And then I would make Make sure that they would get food as soon as I thought they were hungry. And also, along with that I started to teach Muggins behaviors that they can use to tell me when they're hungry or to tell me when they're tired, so that they would have more of an awareness of what they need and then be able to tell me in an appropriate way, instead of an inappropriate way,
Right. Hey, Sharon, we are halfway through so I am going to take this opportunity to take a quick sponsor break and we'll be right back. Sounds great.
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And we're back speaking with Sharon Vincuilla , and this is just so fascinating. We're talking about co-regulation, and how we can help ourselves and our dogs. So both ends of the leash. And Sharon, you were just telling us about your journey with Muggins. And how you kind of reshaped Muggins to be more of a normal dog. And didn't you tell me that the litter was abandoned at four weeks old?
Muggins’ Trauma
That's right, yeah. Muggins had to littermates. And they were born in Tennessee. And they were dropped off at a shelter down there at four weeks old. And then they were lucky enough to be put into foster care for a while. And then they were brought up to New York where I live. And that's where I found them.
And that's a lot of trauma for a new puppy.
Oh, yeah, I mean, new puppies, puppies need their canine parents, right, until they're seven or eight weeks old, maybe even longer. And they also need a lot of like we were talking about before consistency and routine. And so Muggins moved in, and their litter mates moved around quite a bit before the age of two months old.
So how did you get Muggins to be a more stress free, calm, dependable dog?
Working with Muggins
Well, it was a combination really, of providing Muggins with behaviors like skills that they could use to communicate with me. providing them with a sensory diet. So as an OT, I have a lot of training on sensory processing and how the way our nervous systems detect and integrate sensory information contributes to behavior. And in OT, we use something called a sensory diet, which is like a prescribed combination of activities and experiences throughout a day, that provide an individual with the right amounts and types of sensory input to help their nervous system to be more rhythmic and balanced. And so for dogs, well for dogs and humans, engagement in movement and balance activities is really nourishing, and engagement in touch based activities, especially touch that provides that nourishing yummy deep pressure that we feel like when our dog lays on our lap or when we hug another human. And then dogs also need a lot of opportunity to smell. They need to engage in sniffing things so that they can get information about their environment. And when they're sniffing, they're also taking deep breaths. And breathing is a really great way to support the nervous system.
So let's get into it. How does co regulation work? So what would it look like co-regulation between ourselves and our dogs?
Co-Regulation with Our Dogs
So co regulation is really it's helping the dog build skills, and it's helping the human build skills. So when I learned to co regulate with Muggins, it was partially supporting Muggins’ ability to communicate and regulate. But also, I had to work through my own trauma and learn my own skills to help my body to feel safer and calmer. And so when I work with a client, I help them to build awareness. So I teach them about the nonverbal cues of the nervous system, so that they can look objectively at what's happening inside themselves. Like noticing like, Oh, I'm kind of tense in my shoulders right now. And my heart, I feel my heart beating faster, and my palms are kind of sweaty, so I think I'm getting stressed, maybe I need to take a break and take a walk or do some breathing. And then also learning those nonverbal cues for dogs. So noticing that, oh, you know what, my dog is moving around a lot right now. And the sound of their bark sounds kind of high pitched, and they are chewing on something, they're not supposed to be chewing. So I think my dog is frustrated. And maybe they need me to take them outside to play or give them a to item or something like that. So by building awareness of what's going on with the body, we can have a better understanding of what is needed, and then we can take action to provide for those needs.
That is incredible. Well, do you think, you know, some people like to get their dogs from a rescue others like to go to a reputable breeder? Do you find more trauma in puppies from either of those?
Well, it really depends. If somebody is rescuing their dog from the shelter or a rescue, it's more likely that the dog has experienced stressful events, you know, like just being in the shelter is stressful because of the noise level in the shelter. Because they, the dogs don't have as much freedom to move around. Because they have to compete for attention, they don't just get the attention of one person. So those experiences can contribute to stress and, and you could see a result like I had with Muggins. Whereas dogs from reputable breeders are generally getting a lot more attention and socialization, there is less sound in their environment, because they're usually in a home. And they are able to get their needs met when they need things.
And I have to think that in this day and age, it seems like everybody is so stressed, not just stressed, but 24/7. We are in the fight or flight mode. And of course, our dogs take on our stress. And you hear about more people having panic attacks. So how do we move through different trauma with our dogs?
Do you mean like, what what do we do? Like, What specifically can we do to help ourselves?
Like I think of PTSD, you know, people that have PTSD, or just any of us that are triggered by certain instances, that put us in that fight or flight mode and stress and panic.
Advice on How
Yeah, I'm thinking of, I'm going to tell you about a practical exercise. And I'm also going to give some advice. So I think there is still a very large stigma around mental health and pursuing mental health support in our society. And I struggled with that myself, it took me a long time to be able to feel good about going to a therapist and to go regularly. But I think because a lot of people feel like if I need to see a therapist, that means I'm broken, or I'm sick, or there's something wrong with me. And I now believe that if you're going to a therapist, it's because you're human. All Humans need and deserve support to be our best selves. And if you're struggling with something where something is triggering you to have an unexpected response, and it's getting in the way of your ability to do what you need and want to do, then you deserve support. And there's no shame in that. I think that I think that's the best thing that you can do for yourself. And we also deserve to have good support for caring for our dogs. So pursuing professional help from a trainer or a veterinary behaviorist or a coach is great so that you can really be sure that like develop confidence in what you're doing with your dog, because it can be really... There's a lot of insecurity, I think when we're not sure of what to do. And I think working with a professional can really support your confidence that you're doing the right thing. And you're on the right track. So yeah, so it's like a double support would be best support for your dog and support for you.
Right. And you were going to share something that we can do ourselves right away.
A Practical Exercise
Absolutely. One of the best practices that I have started doing with Muggins is breathing. And so that means we sit down every day together. And I focus on some deep, slow breathing for myself. And then Muggins comes over and joins me and weighs down with me. And when they do that, I start rewarding them for taking a deep breath. So if I noticed their nostrils flare or their cheeks puff a little bit, those are signs that they're inhaling, and I'll just drop a tree in front of them. Or if I notice, they put their head down on my lap or on the floor, I'll give them a treat for that. Or if I hear them give a big sigh with a big exhale, I'll give him a treat for that. And so Muggins is getting feedback about what their body is doing. They're getting rewarded for relaxing and for breathing. And what I noticed is that two things, one, if I don't do this, or if I forget to do it, Muggins will come and ask me for this breathing practice, which helps me make sure I do it every day. And two, I noticed Muggins taking deep breaths on their own outside of this practice, whenever they need to relax. And that just makes me feel so good.
That's cool. Wow. And Sharon, I know I mean, it's been months and months and months since we first met. But you said something to me that we have to remember that each ourselves and our dogs need our own space. Do you want to elaborate on that?
We Need Space
Yeah, as a sensitive being, I'm a hypersensitive person, I also identify as neurodivergent. And so when I'm around other people a lot, my sort of like social capacity gets maxed out really quickly. And even like being with Muggins is a Muggins has a social demand, right? Muggins demands attention from me, and I have to talk to them and make decisions and give them guidance. So there's a social demand there with hanging out with Muggins. And so I need a break, I need solitude as part of my like regular routine, so that I have the ability to recharge and rest my senses and rest of my nervous system. And, and that means I need a break from Muggins too sometimes, and Muggins needs a break from me also, you know, like sometimes Muggins just wants to go take a nap and I see them and they look so cute, all curled up and one go over there and just give them kisses. And then when I do that, they just glare at me and get off the couch and go lay down somewhere else.
That's great. We have to remember that because, you know, if we don't take our own space at times, that's when you get a dog that is velcroed to your hip, and has separation anxiety. So there is a fine line. And I'm glad that you told us more about that.
Yeah, so glad you asked.
So before we wrap up today, Sharon, I know that you have tons of examples and stories where this co-regulation worked off the top of your head, you know, we know that it worked very well with you. And Muggins is there another client that you shared this co-regulation strategy with that change their life?
A Great Example
Mm hmm. Yeah, I just finished up last month with a client it was a couple and their dog, an 11 year old Shib Inu named Mandu. And they came to me because they were having a lot of trouble with feeding Mandu. and Mandu had a lot of noise sensitivity which had really become overwhelming I think it had begun with a smoke alarm and and then had generalized to any sound that sounded like a beeping sound and Mandu would just panic or start trembling, be really unresponsive and withdrawn. Wouldn’t eat. And so this couple really wanted their dog to be experiencing less anxiety and be more be able to be more present and relaxed and and they also were struggling with like not being able to go out of town because they were going through all of the jumping through all these hoops to try to feed Mandu. And they were just like, we can't ask somebody else to do this. So what are we going to do? So we did six sessions of coaching. And we also collaborated with their veterinarian. So what I wanted to do was I wanted them to explore medication for the noise sensitivity, and also to explore if there was any underlying pain. Because that can all like with noise sensitivity and difficulty eating, I'm always wondering about pain. And so Mandu did get a prescription. And then we also did co regulation, and we developed a sensory diet and improved Mandu’s communication skills and improve the owner's awareness of Mandu. And it was such a delight, our last session, we were just like talking about all of the things that were different. And they were really feeling like there was so much more ease with feeding Mandu, and he was eating better. He wasn't reacting to all of the beep beep sounds anymore. He was more playful. And they were they had planned a vacation to go out of town and they found somebody who was willing to stay with Mandu.
That's that's a huge success story. I love it. Yeah, cool. Well, Sharon, I know that you have a special offer for our listeners. So would you like to share what that is all about?
OFFER
Yeah, absolutely. I am offering a discount code. It's WOL so Wag out loud. And when you use that code to purchase anything from my site, either coaching, a recorded class or workbook, you will get 20% off
20 Oh my gosh, listeners take advantage of that. That's amazing. Thank you, Sharon, for that.
You're welcome. My pleasure.
And in relation to that, where can everyone find out more information about you and the Human Canine Collaborative?
You can go to my website, it's https://hc-collab.com. And you can also find me on Instagram, @holisticdogexpert, all one word.
Wonderful. And I'm going to have all of these links on how to get in touch with Sharon, on the show notes. So everybody can go there for easy access. And Sharon, I just want to thank you for all of your work and making such a difference. This, you know, the brain is just so complex in both us and our dogs. So for you to offer treatment options for us to live a better, less stressful, calmer, intentional life. I really want to thank you for that.
You're so welcome, Krista and thank you for describing it that way. I think especially that word intentional. I think that's really key when it comes to addressing behavior and mental health the way that I do. Thank you so much.
Well everybody go check out Sharon's site. Again, look for that link in the show notes. And I don't doubt that all of us have learned something new today.
Social Media:
IG: @holisticdogexpert
FB: https://www.facebook.com/HolisticDogExpert/
LinkedIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/humancaninecollaborative/
Thank you so much. It's been such a pleasure to be here.
Thanks, Sharon.
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