Conversing with Mark Labberton

The history of racism has a parallel history of resistance. Courageous women and men have responded to injustice with lives of faith, hope, and love—bearing witness to the spirit of justice. They have inspiring stories we can learn from today. But who is willing to tell those stories? And who is willing to hear them?

In this episode Mark Labberton welcomes historian Jemar Tisby to discuss his new book, The Spirit of Justice—a summoning of over fifty courageous individuals who resisted racism throughout US history. The book is a beautiful quilt of stories and profiles, stitched together through Tisby’s contemporary cultural analysis.

Jemar Tisby is the New York Times bestselling author of The Color of Compromise and How to Fight Racism. He is a public historian, speaker, and advocate, and is professor of history at Simmons College, a historically black college in Kentucky.

Recent Books by Jemar Tisby

The Spirit of Justice *Available now

I Am the Spirit of Justice *Picture book releasing January 7, 2025

*Stories of the Spirit of Justice Middle-grade children’s book releasing January 7, 2025

About Jemar Tisby

Jemar Tisby (PhD, University of Mississippi) is the author of new book The Spirit of Justice, New York Times bestselling The Color of Compromise, and the award-winning How to Fight Racism. He is a historian who studies race, religion, and social movements in the twentieth century and serves as a professor at Simmons College of Kentucky, a historically black college. Jemar is the founding co-host of the Pass the Mic podcast, and his writing has been featured in the Washington Post, The Atlantic, Time, and the New York Times, among others. He is also a frequent commentator on outlets such as NPR and CNN, speaking nationwide on the topics of racial justice, US history, and Christianity. You can follow his work through his Substack newsletter, Footnotes, and on social media at @JemarTisby.

Show Notes

• The Color of Compromise (available here)*—*the larger narrative of (Christian) America’s racist history
• Myrlie Evers Williams on her husband Medgar Evers’s death
• Myrlie Evers Williams: “I see something today that I hoped I would never see again. That is prejudice, hatred, negativism that comes from the highest points across America. She told us then with the candor that comes with old age, she said, and I found myself asking Medgar in the conversations that I have with him. Is this really what's happening again in this country? And asking for guidance because I don't mind admitting this to the press, I'm a little weary at this point.”
• Fighting for justice
• “Black people are born into a situation in which we are forced to defend, assert, and constantly so, our humanity. And that is in the midst of constant attacks on our humanity, big and small, whether it is the vicarious suffering that we see when there's another cell phone video of a black person being brutalized by law enforcement, whether it is, you know, We all have memories of the first time we were called the N word, uh, whether it is going into the workplace and wondering if you didn't get that raise or you were passed over for that promotion, if it had anything to do with the color of your skin, even subconsciously. And so we are born into a situation in which resistance is a daily reality.”
• Sister Thea Bowman, Black Catholic Mississippian Nun
• “Her holiness leaps off the page.”
• Simmons College, Louisville, KY
• Jim Crow Era: “How do you tell the story of the Jim Crow era without centering the white supremacy, the violence, the segregation—How do you center black people in that era?”
• William J. Simmons, Men of the Mark
• The history of Simmons College as an HBCU
• Ida B. Wells
• Harriet Tubman (Araminta Ross) and the Underground Railroad
• Nursing, training, service, and freeing the slaves
• Combahee River Raid (led by Harriet Tubman)—she received a full military burial
• “We need the spirit of justice because injustice is present.”
• Fight, flight, freeze, or fawn
• “And in all kinds of ways, black people chose to fight their oppression.”
• Romans 5: Suffering produces perseverance. Perseverance produces character. Character produces hope and hope does not put us to shame.
• “Hope is a decision.” (Archbishop Desmond Tutu)
• “They chose hope.”
• William Pannell, Fuller Theological Seminary—My Friend the Enemy (1968)
• Rodney King and “the coming race war”
• William Pannell’s impact on Mark Labberton
• Film: The Gospel According to Bill Pannell
• “When you see what's really motivating people, what's really stirring up fear and hatred, which can lead also to violence. It's still around race.”
• Racial anxiety and politics: “This is no longer a white man’s America.”
• The Holy Spirit
• “I’m getting so Pentecostal in these days.”
• Psalm 11:7: “God is a God of righteousness. God loves justice.”
• “When I think about what exactly the spirit of justice is, I think it's the fingerprint of God on every human being made in God's image that says I'm worthy of dignity, respect, and the freedom to flourish. And when that is taken away from me because of oppression and injustice, I have this spirit within me to resist.”
• “The spirit of justice gives us that resilience, that strength to become determined all over again. This is not a power that we find within ourselves to get back up again every time the backlash pushes us back. It is a power. the supernatural power, the same power that raised Jesus from the dead, that also empowers us for the work of justice.”
• How to make a difference
• The variety of black experiences
• Jemar Tisby’s first picture book and young reader’s edition

Production Credits

Conversing is produced and distributed in partnership with Comment magazine and Fuller Seminary.