Aug 31 2024 36 mins
By Mary Lindow
Today’s podcast is going to be discussing a subject that a lot of people avoid because they honestly just don’t know how to approach it or, they are afraid to approach it.
Somehow people think that people like myself who have been serving in ministry to the Body of Christ for many, many years, and who are called by the Lord to operate or flow in a prophetic ministry as well, do this 40 hours a week. And, of course, people do expect you to be on call and ready to deliver a clear and concise word from the Lord, without considering the fact that you are not just simply a prophet or a teacher/minister, but you are also a human being who lives and breathes and moves and feels.
BEING IN MINISTRY ON ANY LEVEL IS NOT FOR THE WEAK OF HEART and truly should not be something to be considered or pursued by those who are looking for a platform for fame or to hold power over others. It is a call to hear the voice of the Lord, to study his word and to always be ready to give a good report of what he has promised or what he is requiring of his people.
So having said that, I am echoing the words and most likely also the thoughts of many disappointed and disillusioned believers right now.
I read a wonderful devotional last week from the Bible app. and it so resonated with where things are right now in our world.
It said,
“If we are paying attention, we will see a lot of “off” around us. I bet you have noticed things that appeared unjust. Cracks in the façade that show injustice is real.
People hurt. Bullies winning.
The right action is left undone or the wrong action brings harm.
When we pay attention, we have to acknowledge this world is gut-wrenchingly broken.”
Many of us will read a description of mistreatment and nod along from experience, memories bringing a fire to our chest. Others hear words about injustice, and it all feels distant. The deep desire to downplay evil stirs, perhaps even subconsciously.
Reading Habakkuk beckons us to acknowledge a foundational principle God reveals through Old Testament prophets—you have to see the evil. We must look around at what is happening in the world and see it for what it is.”
THE BIBLE PAINTS THE PROPHETS AS THOSE WHO JOLT US AWAKE AND FORCE US TO SEE WHAT IS HAPPENING AND WHAT GOD SAYS ABOUT SUCH THINGS.
They are the watchmen signaling with waving arms, often to people wanting to look away.
“Look up and see the evil done against others”, the prophets said.
See the impact of your own choices on the vulnerable.
See the disobedience of God’s people.
GOD SEES THE WAYS WE’VE GOTTEN THINGS SUPER WRONG FRIENDS, and he’s coming to do something about it.
Get ready. We might not be paying attention, but he is.
It would be easy for some of us—and beneficial at times—to look away from the wrong done around us. We much prefer the aesthetics that way. Yet, there are consequences to indifference. We should not be surprised by discipline from the Lord if we choose not to pay attention to the discrepancy between our community’s actions and God’s righteous standard, just as the prophets warned in Israel.
FOR OVER 16 YEARS STEVE AND I HAVE ALSO BEEN INVOLVED AS PASTORAL COUNSELORS. Now, some individuals say that all pastors can give pastoral counseling to people. It’s a little different than that. Some people go to school and study psychology, which is the study of the mind, and how to understand the psyche of people and help them. This is a secular approach, and there have been good results and helping people resolve conflicts and often mental illness issues as well as addressing dementia and Alzheimer’s problems and more.
Pastoral counseling is where the Bible is the foundation, the Scriptures are the foundation of what you use as a basis to advise and counsel and hopefully help restore people. You also do have to take study courses and apply different techniques in counseling that assist you in being able to assess and discern, as well as understand some issues of mental health in order to be integral in your approach. Steve and I were supervised for over 15 years by a doctor of psychology, who was a strong believer, and we both took courses from different Christian counseling associations and college courses in order to broaden our ability to help people. We also had a brick-and-mortar counseling group with a dear friend, our friend who was the doctor of psychology and the practice supervisor for three years in our local area.
WE SAW THE LORD TRANSFORM, marriages, families, young people, and drug addicts, as well as dealing with many abused believers who had come out of almost cult-like, churches, or who were involved in environments and churches where they could not talk about abuse going on with the staff. Many in ministry callings came to us to share their hearts and gained helpful counsel as well.
LITERALLY A FEW WEEKS BEFORE COVID LOCKDOWNS BEGAN, our landlord who was also a believer let us know that he was going to sell his portion of the medical unit building that we were renting from him, and the Lord had begun to speak to Steve and I about the timing of where we were supposed to head into more private work as pastoral counselors and as mentors within that same timeframe. The state of Colorado had begun to dictate what licensed counselors were permitted to address, absolutely mandating that they were not permitted to talk about any kind of therapy, that assisted those with “different sexual lifestyles” if they wanted to be transformed or helped.
Steve and I strictly operate as Ordained ministers so we do not have to bow our knee to the dictates of a corrupt government licensure program. We still have to follow confidentiality laws as well as report any kind of devastating child abuse that we may hear in our counseling sessions, but it is all done ethically and legally, and with grace. When the lockdowns began the majority of our work took place over the phone or occasional zoom sessions. With great sadness our dear sister and friend and Counseling Center Supervisor Dr. Muskie, passed into heaven, due to complications with WuhanCovid19.
When You Counsel People, The Number One Thing
That Needs To Be Absolutely Evident Is That You Are Willing
To NOT Look At Everyone From A Lens Of What YOU Know,
But Rather From The Lens Of God’s Compassion, As Well As
Leaning In To The Discernment Of The Holy Spirit.
The majority of the people I work with are women who have been in abusive environments with either husbands, abusive parents or/siblings and with people in ministry environments (and I’m telling you there are many sexual predators who prey upon women right in church buildings!) as well as working with professional women who are pressured by men and women in their work environments.
There are also a lot of women who are very sensual, who get attention by teasing men hoping to cause them to fall. It’s a real deal! And they don’t just go after pastors. They will go after any man in a local body or church or work environment to get the attention that they hunger for when they missed out on being parented properly, or if they feel that something sensual makes them get the attention they need to feel loved. This often happens when there has been sexual abuse in their lives.
Pastoral counseling is based on getting to the root of the problem according to what the word of God says, and for a believer the importance of it is that we are willing to face the root cause of what causes us to be traumatized, bitter, secretive, or lie.
ONE OF THE HARDEST THINGS TO COUNSEL IS A PERSON WITH AN EXTREMELY HARD, WOUNDED HEART, OR WHO IS EMBITTERED. No matter how much you try to show them the way and soften the pathway for them with the grace of God, there is often a back lash that always has a reason to explain why they are hurt, why they are hard, and why they choose to stay stuck in a hard place.
In Matthew 13:15 Jesus says:
“For the heart of this people has become hard,
With their ears they scarcely hear,
And they have closed their eyes,
Otherwise they would see with their eyes,
Hear with their ears,
And understand with their heart and return,
And I would heal them.”
It is a humbling thing to admit that you are stuck or that you are in a hard place, or that you are dominant and mean and cruel to people because you are bitter over tough life circumstances that have happened to you, and so you put up a wall to protect yourself.
I have met Christians who justify the fact that they can bully and name call and yes, often swear at other people when they think they are trying to help them or advise them. They often get angry when they are confronted about their bad bullying behavior towards their children. If you ever hear a believer say something like “my child is a jerk”, or “you’re a little brat”, or “stop whining and get up or I’m going to give you something to cry about”, you can tell that there’s verbal abuse going on in their home.
Verbal abuse isn’t just cussing at someone although it is verbal abuse for sure! Verbal abuse is considered shaming, humiliating, paralyzing, and dominating over someone else verbally to the point that they are caused to emotionally shut down in fear. Unfortunately, I hear in the confines and confidential pouring out of hearts in my counseling sessions many who have been yelled at with scripture verses and shamed over not being perfect and obedient to God. This is called spiritual abuse.
Picking out specific Bible verses, and using them as a battering ram, or a knife that stabs into the heart of someone to get them to “obey" or to get them to “submit”, is absolutely vicious behavior and it is abusive. There’s no godly virtue in posturing to be a big shot, or to appear to be the person who can control a room with snarky snide remarks or a bunch of advice that everyone is forced to listen to.
This is called "insolent pride" in the Bible, and we always take that biblical view, but in the natural if you were studying a psychological viewpoint, this is called narcissism.
Proverbs 21:24 states
“Proud,” “Haughty,” “Scoffer,” are his names,
He who acts with insolent pride
INSOLENT PRIDE CREATES A SCOFFING, ARROGANT “KNOW IT ALL” ENVIRONMENT, where there is no ability to ever address the deep-rooted issue of control and abuse in a human being and how they use it towards others to posture. The need for power and control becomes “out of control”! But underneath that simmering rage there is someone who needs to keep everything tightly organized and under their thumb in order that no one finds about out the secret part of them that is either weak, wounded, or has done something they should not do to harm others.
WHY AM I SHARING THIS?
Well, we are living in a time where narcissism is actually applauded and stroked as a point of near genius! Insolent pride and verbal domination have become the way of communication in most social media groups. And, unfortunately it takes place in a lot of texting where people can say cruel or snarky things behind the protection of a telephone screen and slander others in one mass social media post or text! But to say it face-to-face and see the pain in someone’s face by the words they’ve spoken is a different thing isn’t it? And the other party suddenly being painted as a “rotten person” never gets a chance to tell the side of their story that may actually be the truth.
Every day we come across people who need to hear a kind word, who need to be lead to a place where they can get help or truth, or just simply be treated with a level of empathy. And, every day we come across people who may be predators, verbal abusers, spiritual abusers, and have no conscience about how they treat people.
IT IS ABSOLUTELY TIME FOR THE BODY OF CHRIST AGAIN TO READDRESS THE ISSUE, FOR THE NEED FOR EXTREME DISCERNMENT. Everything that the enemy could throw at us and our children is on full display right now, and if we dumb down safety and sexuality, safety and what our children watch on television or other tech devices, safety and what WE as adults watch, we simply embrace the narrative of the world, and we move away from scriptural goodness into a place that pollutes the ability to have good discernment.
When we don’t allow accountability to come into our lives, whether it be with a good and wise counselor, or with a group of trusted friends who are not going to take your information and spread it far and wide, we leave ourselves open to a secretive fantasy world, or a secret world of torment.
What do you do when you’re anxious or sad or depressed or fearful over the way your husband treats you or the way your wife beats you down verbally?
What do you do when you are at a stalemate because a spouse refuses to forgive or move forward into hearing the truth about some of the things they have done to get locked into bad behavior and resentment?
What do you do when you have a child that suddenly has become addicted to video games and it’s moved up into their adult life and they have no friends because their world is all in front of a screen?
What do you do when you know that a minister or a member of a staff in a church or a CEO of your corporation is secretly sexually preying upon individuals in their offices, and you could lose your job, because you know?
THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT ARE HARD TO ADDRESS,
BUT MUST BE ADDRESSED!
The world is feeling a tremendous amount of being unsettled right now by the great upset of realizing how easy it is to be controlled by a few tyrants, and yet people will cower and go about in denial, instead of learning how to be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
I have worked with many brave women, who have prayed and fasted and done everything they possibly can to help work on their marriages, but their spouses have chosen to hunker down and gaslight and punish. No matter what approach is taken they become more verbally violent and are determined to blame everyone else.
Is this easy to talk about? Absolutely not!
But when you are scripturally based not only as a minister, but also as a pastoral counselor, you must bring truth into the light and help people become free from abusive environments and often “self abusive” environments. You must above all have confidentiality and trust level that they know will not be breached. Most pastoral counselors work on a sliding scale fee in order to keep their rates low for those who are working hard, sometimes two and three jobs, or a wife who has limited income because her husband tightly holds the reins of the finances.
WHEN YOU’RE A PASTORAL COUNSELOR, IT IS DONE OUT OF THE PASSION FOR CHRIST and therefore money and income are not the foremost driving purpose for your work. But, there must be an investment and a fee from those who are in counseling, or people tend to not take it seriously.
It needs to be considered per individual and what they are capable of handling. I often tell people their counseling is much more important than the two or three times weekly custom cup of coffee at their local coffee shop, or perhaps snacks in their afternoon candy bar routine. It really isn’t a sacrifice when you start doing the work to get yourself whole and healthy.
It becomes a lifetime investment.
Pastoral counseling is definitely a calling and not to be simply a moneymaker. However, many individuals still expect hours and hours of free counseling time, and rarely invest much into changing their lives if there isn’t some kind of financial accountability for them. Of course if you attend a local church and there is a counseling pastor on staff, that’s what they are there for! If you regularly go to that fellowship and support them, usually there is an option or opportunity for you to see a counselor on staff for no fee. But having experienced some of this in the past, I also know that people tend to jump from counselor to counselor or, Pastor to Pastor if they don’t want to deal with the root cause of their problems, and it can cause friction in a local body if there’s not respect for the position and the role the pastoral counselor is assigned to, by the Lord. Basically they want someone to justify what they are doing, and their bad behaviors.
I URGE YOU TO ASK THE LORD TO WALK THE CORRIDORS OF YOUR HEART. Are there things in your life that you dominate and hold over others as scriptural and “legalistic absolutes” and they have become nearly abusive because you refuse to listen to someone else’s heart on the matter?
One thing that I have often observed is that people become very hard and hardened because they want to win an argument, or something that has helped and changed them, becomes a law for them to use against others.
Now, before others think I’m going to lighten my approach to the Bible, understand this. The word of God is perfect and enlightens the soul. It brings truth to a matter and it does not waver.
Of course, there are absolutes in the Scriptures that God will not deviate from no matter how many people try to dilute or maneuver around them. But if we use a hammer and verbal abuse and shame and scripture to “scorch people” in order to prove a point, or to advise them then we are also biblically unsound and abusive.
FIRST CORINTHIANS INSTRUCTS US SO CLEARLY THAT LOVE IS WHAT?
It is patient.
It is kind.
It is not boastful, it is not arrogant, and it is not self-serving.
When the Lord said, come to me, all of you who are heavy, laden, weighed down and burdened, and I will give you rest, he meant that, because he knows we get heavy laden and burdened and weighed down, either by our own destructive behaviors and sins, or by the destructive behaviors and actions and sins of others.
There is also nothing more painful than when someone is in pain or sorrowful or going through a great loss or trauma, and another individual shouts, “get over it, move on”, or cracks jokes about the person in pain.
Yes, you will be around people who are chronically in pain or depressed, and it takes patience. It takes guidance, and it takes kindness to either help direct them to help, or gently tell them that you are not the person that is able to help them at this time, but that you will stop and pray for them right now.
You see, it takes humility.
Although there is a lot of reading material produced that uses the term “tough love” and a lot of books about boundaries that we can study, remember, if you’re coming from a scriptural perspective the ultimate goal of God is a Redemptive moment or a restoration if possible.
BOUNDARIES ARE NOT TO BE HUGE CEMENT WALLS WITH BARBED WIRE AT THE TOP BLOCKING OUT EVEN THE SUN.
Boundaries as a believer are there for when there is a conflict or a disagreement or a different viewpoint with another person. It’s a "time out" to go and think about it, to pray about it, check your own heart and see if there’s something that would bring about a form of reconciliation. And then, you try to come together and discuss the issue.
You can agree to disagree and not banish people!
Imagine how much Jesus disagrees with a lot of how we behave and yet he doesn’t banish us! He continues to wait for us to come out of our corners of hiding or corners of denial, and meet him again in dialogue until light comes and hope and help, bring a different perspective on our pathway of life.
I have worked with people through phone counseling sessions from many different places in the United States, and I have seen them grieve and open up and trust me with the deepest of their painful sorrows and things that are unbelievably sometimes even unbearable to mention. Slowly, but surely, a foundation of nurture and truth combined begins to chip away at the lie that they have believed and feel viewed as something no longer valuable or useful, or that they are worthy of value and are not to be abused!
For instance, if a young girl has been used and trafficked by a parent for most of their childhood and up into their high school years, once they awaken to this later in life, there is no way that anyone can accuse them of “choosing” to not face it!
There comes a time where the light of God shines brightly on the pain and the sorrow, and they need to be led out into a place where they can express the grief, the anguish and the huge loss of childhood innocence, and yet be brought to a safe place before the face of God, through strategic dialog, planning, or behavioral changes. Gently addressing the people that they affiliate, with until they see the light and the kindness of God. Until they can see themselves as the original creation God had planned them to be.
NOW, DON’T GET ME WRONG.
I ABSOLUTELY LOVE WHEN THE LORD OPENS DOORS FOR ME TO SPEAK AND MINISTER, and if so called to, I to do operate in the word of knowledge and the word of wisdom when I am involved in these environments. It is hard work to study and prepare in prayer for when you are assigned these opportunities to speak and minister publicly. But, this behind-the-scenes work of mentoring and pastorally, biblically guide people with counsel, is one of the hardest things that I think I’ve ever done, and yet the most joyful and rewarding when you see the lights come on and the light enter and the chains of the enemy become literal paper and fall away. The person finds the joy and laughter and finds that God has a glorious plan for them.
Sometimes it can be a rather rapid process, but the majority of times it is a steady, consistent work, until they find their wings and fly. Every time I work with someone I think about how long it takes for Jesus to help us to find our way, and he often narrows the path of our relationships and friendships in order for us to not only be safe, but to also be on a pathway that is not crowded by those who choose to not do the work that God is asking them to do, in order to be transformed.
If we look at the parable where the seed falls on the ground, there are those who will stay stony hearted and will not take in water. They will not receive nourishment. They choose not to grow, and the sad thing is that their seed is pecked up on my other predators.
I CAN TELL YOU HONESTLY THAT ALL OF THE PROPHETIC WORDS SPOKEN OVER YOUR LIFE DO NOT CHANGE
THE HARD WORK IT TAKES TO GET YOUR LIFE ON A PATH WHERE THEY CAN COME TO PASS.
The Lord is so good to give us future promises, but with those there’s a requirement for action.
Don’t wait until things are so bad and you have a minefield of heartache and debris left in your wake that you have to now clean up.
Don’t be afraid to ask for the help that you need, and find someone whom you can work with and feel safe with, and get on with allowing God to create a new clean heart and renew a right spirit within you.
If you have addictions to pornography or addictions to drugs or any other thing that causes you to feel driven towards it, the Lord wants to offer you freedom and restore you to a place of peace and no longer walking in fear.
The greatest counselor that we can have is the Holy Spirit; the scripture says the Holy Spirit is a counselor.
Now, many people say, “Well! I can hear from the Lord for myself, and I will let the Holy Spirit counsel me!”
The problem with that statement is that if we are already in trouble, or we are hiding something, or we have been abused and beat down, we can often dismiss the deep inner voice of the Lord telling us that we need to talk to others and be accountable and get help. Often the Holy Spirit will gently say to someone, “Go talk to so-and-so or go talk to your pastor or go talk to a counselor or a close friend, who is wise”. Yet pride or fear keeps us paralyzed and afraid to move forward.
EVERYONE SOMEWHERE IN THEIR FAMILY OR IN THEIR LIFE EXPERIENCES HURT, AND PAIN AND TRAUMA. Unfortunately, this is the nature of fallen man and the Earth is riddled with devastation because of it. But in John 10:10, Jesus himself said, “I have come that you might have life to the fullest!” He said that you MIGHT have life to the fullest! And the first part of that verse is, “but Satan comes to rob to steal to kill and destroy”. This is what happens to people in life when they are abused and traumatized!
Jesus offers a hand to us saying come to me all of you, who are very weary and heavy laden, heavy burdened, and I will give you rest so that you might have life to the fullest.
One of the simplest ways you can find help is to simply look in your area for a Christian counselor, and you can even ask for specifics and details. Those who are really dedicated to the call of God as pastoral counselors spend as much time in prayer and preparation before there counseling session, as they do IN the counseling session.
The word of God ultimately has the answers that we need, and the pathway that will guide us out of darkness into the light.
I AM IMPRESSED TO SHARE THIS PODCAST SPECIFICALLY
BECAUSE I KNOW THERE ARE THOSE OF YOU
THAT ARE LISTENING WHO ARE CRYING OUT FOR GOD
TO SHOW YOU WHERE TO GO OR WHAT TO DO ABOUT
SOME OF THE SITUATIONS YOU FIND YOURSELF IN.
He wants you to know it is not wrong to seek help and that counseling is not of the devil!
After all the scripture in Isaiah calls, Jesus, The Mighty Counselor! And again he speaks of the Holy Spirit as being our advocate, or one of our counselors, because they are in themselves three in one with the Father. But, the Lord gives the spirit of counsel and wisdom, and insight to those who are called to help others out of dark places.
Don’t hesitate!
Call someone, research someone in your area, or if you have a pastor or individual who is skilled in your church to help you deal with the specific kind of trauma upset you are dealing with, make an appointment and step forward. Not all pastors are skilled or qualified to help people who have been through traumatic sexual abuse issues, or who are dealing with parents who have dementia and Alzheimer’s. But, they can certainly pray with you and help also to direct you to the proper resource.
JESUS WANTS US TO FIND A PLACE OF PEACE AND REST IN HIM. His ultimate is to bring us peace and to draw us close to him.
If there’s anyone who has ever shamed you by telling you that, seeing a counselor is weak or shows that you don’t trust the Lord, just understand that that individual is also hiding something, or is extremely bound up in the fear of being led astray.
Some counselors are not a good fit and so you go to a different one! There have been times when I have worked with individuals and I have to lovingly let them know that I am not a good fit for their situation, or it becomes overlapped into situations where there needs to be another specialist who can better help them walk out an area where they’re stuck, and they need a Focused, Skilled individual to help them unpack, and unburden the deep pain that they are in.
THE SCRIPTURE SAYS HE WHOM THE SON SETS FREE IS FREE INDEED.
My prayer for those that are listening today is that you will open your heart to the Lord in prayer and ask him to help you to take the steps forward that you might need to deal with whatever it is that you are suffering over.
If you have been verbally abused by bullies in the church or those that may even say that they have some form of counseling skill, but they verbally abuse or shame or use harsh language in order to shock you, this was not the way God planned it. Try again!
Step forward one more time and ask the Lord to open the door for you to the right counselor. He will do it, and he will help you be free from pain, the hiding of abuse as a child, the difficulty of dealing with addicted or angry adult children, and those that are prodigal parents, or prodigal children.
Jesus has a plan and helping us to hand things over to him in his care when we’ve done all that we know we can possibly do, and we have apologized or repented for actions on our part.
Remember, nothing is impossible with God.
I have seen him turn situations around that seemed absolutely impossible! He can help us to stand firm in our faith and not hide in order to be people pleasers, or to cower under the pressure of abusive treatment.
OUR NATURAL HUMAN RESPONSE TO SHAME IS TO HIDE.
We hide from each other and hide from God.
This has been the case since Creation. The Bible describes how the first human beings responded to God when they had sinned and were ashamed: “Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden” (Genesis 3:8).
FRIENDS, HIDING KEEPS US FROM HEALING.
Let’s all aim to be a compassionate, courageous community of believers. A community in which we support each other as we choose healing over hiding.
Let’s support each other as we ask God to grow, to change and heal us.
Let Me Lift You Up To The Father In Prayer Right Now:
Father, I thank you for those that are listening to this podcast today. I know it’s not an easy one and certainly not as stimulating and supernatural or as exciting as some, but it IS a supernatural work that you do when you bring us to a place of releasing pain and telling the truth about what has happened to us, or where we have done something to harm someone else.
Lord, I know you’re doing a great cleansing work and that you are starting with the body of Christ, bringing your judgment and your truth, and your light.
Lord, you said the days are coming when we will worship you in spirit and in truth. Lord, we can’t fully worship you when we’re not truthful with you, if we’re hiding and if we’re cloaking, so I pray that anyone listening today. Father anyone who is afraid. I pray that you tell them that fear is holding them back and that you would guide them literally by the hand and direct them to the proper counselor, to someone who has the wisdom to help unlock the pain, the history, the stories and the trauma that has happened to them, in war, in family, in abuse in school or a job. With an abusive Pastor, with an abusive Sunday school teacher.
The list goes on and on and you know every one of these events.
So Father I ask that those that are hearing this message will take courage. You will GIVE them the courage to step out and ask for help and I know you will do it.
You will help them if they will simply step out, and I thank you for hearing this prayer from my heart for them, in Jesus name.
Duplication and sharing of this writing is welcomed, as long as the complete message, Website, podcast link and information for Mary Lindow is included.
Thank You! 2024
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