Dec 20 2023 68 mins
Dr. Joel Rosen:
Alright, so our next guest is Christian Drapeau. He is a stem cell scientist, author, and creator of this first stem cell supplement. He holds a graduate degree in neurophysiology, and he’s been involved in medical research for 30-plus years, of which the last 20 years have specifically been dedicated to stem cell research.
He’s the author of five books, including the best-selling Cracking the Stem Cell Code, he has published dozens of scientific papers on brain research and biological process processes, which we’ll be asking about endogenous stem cell mobilization. He’s lectured over 50 countries on stem cell research. He is known by scientists, physicians, and biohackers alike as the expert and pioneer in this field. Thank you so much for being here today. Christian, I could go on but I want to get the good stuff here today.
Christian Drapeau:
Thank you. Thank you. My pleasure. Yeah, so
Dr. Joel Rosen:
I you know, I like to prepare for these, these interviews, and I’ve done some research I know that in 94, you started with your blue-green algae research, but it wasn’t really until 2001 Were the article that you read turned blood into the brain. And like you said, as well, a lot of these times these amazing research articles come out, but they don’t register a glitch in the radar. Why was it that that article turning blood into the brain was so profoundly changing for you?
Christian Drapeau:
Well, to tell the truth, this article was sent to me soon after it was published, and it sat on my desk for probably three, or four months. So I read it the first time and it did not register. And I was cleaning my desk, and that paper was still there on my desk, and I read it again. And then that’s when slowly the thoughts started to trickle, and we need to look at it in the context of where we were at the time.
So we had published not long before, that polysaccharides from that blue-green algae, were stimulating NK cell migration in tissues. So in the back of my mind was that data that there was something it is blue-green algae that mobilized immune cells taken in very broadly, my background is brain research, I know, we know, we were told that we cannot make new neurons.
So finally reading that paper, and reading that stem cells from the bone marrow, could go to the brain and become a brain cell, which is a type of cell that we were told in neurology, you cannot regenerate your brain. I knew from just my basic class of med class that stem cells are only known to be precursors to blood cells.
And suddenly, I’m thinking about when we were talking about the release of stem cells migrating into a tissue, and we showed that blue-green algae were supporting the migration of NK cells. So this sort of amorphous idea started to shape itself in my brain thinking that what if that plant could support the migration of stem cells in tissues? So it’s just reading it? And it started to be an answer a potential answer to a question that, that we had for several years, we did not have a way of explaining how this plant was leading to benefits touching so many aspects of human health. Right?
Dr. Joel Rosen:
Okay, so going forward from there, because I want to get your insight on this, and how research continues to propel us forward. But there’s been a lot of skepticism about the landscape and the controversy of stem cells.
So given that, that article just sort of planted the seed for you, Christian, to tell us about where we come from, or what the initial, I guess, the landscape was, in terms of how stem cells and even more plant-based support for stem cells has been was initially received and where it is now? You know,
Christian Drapeau:
I liked these questions, because, to me, everything that we’re facing, and we’re looking at right now, in terms of what we have done with plants, but also the whole landscape of stem cell research, is an amazing example of the real life of scientific discoveries and scientific development, the interaction of scientific development, with business development, with policy development.
All of this was so complex that if we knew today, so if we knew then what we know today, I guarantee you, we would not have today, the landscape that we have, things would have evolved differently. So and I’ll come back to that in a second. So when the first observations were made, we’re in early 2000 and 2001, that stem cells known for decades to be precursors to blood cells, were finally known to have the ability to become cells of many different tissues.
At first, the observation or the belief was that, Okay, we’re ready to accept that they can be more than just blood cells, but we’re not ready to accept that they can become everything, yet. The data was there, right there. When I’m talking about the process of scientific discovery, we can observe and document the only things that we can accept, if there’s something that we cannot accept, we can observe it but we’re blind to its observation to a degree.
So my point is that in early 2000, already data was already clear stem cells could become everything in the body, but there was a reluctance to accept it. And then accepting that the stem cells in your bone marrow can do it very well. So pushed into the direction of Okay, then let’s go to the causes that we have to inbuilt to embryonic stem cells, which is umbilical stem cells.
So now led to the development of all these banking of cells and everything that is done with umbilical stem cells, which I’m not saying is not good or does not have its place. But it did develop at a time when we did not fully accept stem cells from the bone marrow. Arrow at all the potential that we know today that they have, if we knew that and accepted that from from from first, like from the beginning, we probably would not have the incentive of going and collecting umbilical cord stem cells.
So I’m giving snippets here of the whole development of this world if you want the stem cell world. Now, when all of this has been developed systems of collection system of banking, systems of multiplication, cryopreservation, and all of that, you just don’t say, well, let’s drop all of this. And let’s turn to bone marrow stem cells, because they’re just as good, which is not like 100%. True.
All I’m saying is that the landscape would be different today. And we knew these things earlier on. So the knowledge developed, but essentially what emerged, and which is the area that I’ve pushed a lot is this understanding that if stem cells have enormous regenerative potential, they’re not better because we take them out of a source and put them back in, they have intrinsically this kinds of regenerative potential. So if they do have this, what is their role in the body?
And when we discover that stem cells are the natural role, the natural repair system of the body, then the question is, is there anything stronger, to help you be healthy, or improve your health if you have a problem, than to tap into your body’s ability to repair. And that is where I have studied the most because we ended up discovering plants, the one that we talked about earlier, we discovered plants that triggered the release of stem cells from the bone marrow. So it created this old view of saying, okay, instead of removing stem cells and re-injecting them, which is increasing the number of stem cells in circulation through an injection, what if we increase the number of stem cells in circulation, simply by boosting the release of our stem cells, which is the whole field now of plant-based stem cell enhancers?
Dr. Joel Rosen:
Right? No, that’s great. And you know, the name of this podcast is The Reversing Blueprint. And I like the idea that you have shared in the sense that the real marker of age is how well our stem cells can be released to be this protective layer, of renewables. And with that being said, maybe just let’s kind of start from the beginning, where someone that might be listening to this where we do tend to go a little deeper and into the weeds, but are wondering, what are stem cells? And what do they do? And I’ve heard that there are different kinds, maybe just kind of give us an overview of their first question, and then we can kind of elaborate going forward.
Christian Drapeau:
Okay, without going too deep into the various types of stem cells. Let’s put it this way. The best way to define me stem cell is first to define what is not a stem cell, and then we exclude that every cell of the body is called a somatic cell, they’re cells that have one specific function, and they will never change their function. Like if you have an injury to your muscle because you went to the gym, the gym, and you sort of over-exercise, you want to have a cell of your skin, looking down to your bicep and just say, Gee, that muscle needs assistance. Let me go and become a muscle cell. It won’t happen.
A somatic cell does one thing, it will never change to a large extent it will never multiply. This is a somatic cell. At the other end of the spectrum, you have stem cells, they are sort of blank cells, mother cells having the ability to become everything in the body, and not only do they have the ability, but they do so during the entire life of an individual. So these are stem cells. There is one type of stem sales. By more you’ll sales, if you want in your bone marrow when you’re born, your bone marrow as these stem cells, they are the remnant of what it was one day, your embryonic stem cell, when you were one cell on the day of your conception. So these evolve, you become the whole organism and you’re born with a bank of stem cells in your bone marrow, these stem cells and you also have stem cells in every single one of your tissue.
They are tissue resident-specific stem cells specific for that tissue. Now, these stem cells in tissues are normally known as progenitor cells. And then you have cells for various tissues. For example, one that is sort of well talked about is endothelial progenitor cells, there are stem cells in your blood that will become blood vessels, but you have these progenitor cells in every single one of your tissue. Their job is to repair that tissue and to maintain that tissue during your life. But these stem cells will get exhausted fairly rapidly, fairly early in life. So they need to be replenished.
So they are replenished by stem cells from the bone marrow going into your blood. Replenishing these tissues, as they reach tissues gets into these tissues and sometimes gets released again, gets recaptured by the bone marrow. As we age it brings a level of ethereal Janessa t if you want in your Bone Marrow where you can start to have all kinds of different stem cells in your bone marrow. So I won’t go into all these different subtypes because the end, what is, I think important to understand is that there are stem cells in your bone marrow, they’re released, they go into your tissue.
And that cycle of providing stem cells to tissues continues during the entire life of an individual. Let me just state one type of stem cell that I think is very important to know. And there, they have been referred into the scientific history if you want over the past 15 years or so, as in different names. They’ve been called embryonic-like stem cells, they’ve been called blessed to me are like stem cells. So you embryonic-like very small, embryonic-like stem cells, blessed to me are like stem cells and a few other names. Essentially, they are a stem cell that is the size of a platelet.
And you identify them or they were discovered, when you suddenly start to because platelets don’t have DNA. So you suddenly start to tag for DNA. And you see that cell that is the size of a platelet, that is DNA. And if you use a marker for stem cells, you see that it marks with stem cells as well. So they are full-blown stem cells, and they happen to be the most potent stem cells in the human body. So they reside in the bone marrow in muscle, they’re in different places. And they’re interesting because right now, it’s growing in the scientific literature, different ways of tapping into very small embryonic-like stem cells. So they’re interesting to know. But essentially, that’s sort of the landscape of stem cells. Right?
Dr. Joel Rosen:
Okay. And then the other classification that I’ve heard you say, is just the embryonic stem cells up until what they ate, it is that, and then anything after that we considered adult stem cells, and that the embryonic stem cells not to be confused with the embryonic-like stem cells are being used more for medical drug purposes and not to be injected into the human body. One of the questions I had, as an aside was, are they starting to study the teratomas?
In terms of Okay, so a teratoma is this gnarly, you know, has all these different types of cells, whether it’s bone or AI, or heart, and the danger of trying to put that in the heart and differentiating into cardiac tissue. I’m curious, though, if they’re doing studies to see how different I guess signaling molecules are the terrain is for that teratoma to have that specific characteristic to be able to have more idea of why it differentiated into those types of cells. Do you know if there’s,
Christian Drapeau:
I don’t know if they’re studying that specifically. But they’re doing something similar in the sense that the embryonic stem cells are designed to become various types of tissues. So it’s hard to make the embryonic stem cells not become these different tissues. But right now, most of that work is done with induced pluripotent stem cells. So they take like a cell of your skin, for example.
And they go in, they turn on the four or so genes that normally are turned on in a stem cell in an embryonic stem cell. So, they give back stemness, if you want in one of your cells, so it’s taking one of yourself as an individual today, turning it back as what looks like an embryonic stem cell in what is technically an embryonic stem cell. And then we’re trying to make those stem cells become cells of your heart, for example, to rebuild a new heart for you. So this is now a big, big line of research.
But the problem is, indeed, that is a cancer cell. a cancer cell is a cell that has reactivated those same genes. So it is like playing with like a bomb and yourself, it can develop into a tumor and that’s what a teratoma is. So there are things they’re trying to restrict the conversion of these induced pluripotent stem cells in tissues other than the one that we want. So that is really where it is right now. And I think when you were asking the question, Joel, I think it was, I felt like it might be interesting to give just a little bit of background on this old world of embryonic stem cells.
We have had the sheep Dolly, we have had you remember in the 80s, where they started to clone sheep, they cloned dogs, they cloned mice, they cloned the clone different types of animals, but they had never been able to clone a human embryonic stem cell. That is D discovery in 1998 that reopened this whole field because if you can clone a sheep or a dog, then it’s giving us human scientists this idea.
What if we could in a test in a test tube in a lab? What if we could clone you as a human as a human, just to make a new heart for you so that I can replace your heart for you with your own heart? That was the whole idea of this dream of what we could do eventually one day if we can grow human embryonic stem cells I was in 1998, and this became possible. So it just brought back this whole idea that my goodness, we could be able to grow organs, but rapidly we face conflict.
Number one, the ethical conflict of cloning human bodies, human beings, which we never went over. And I don’t think we should, I think it was a good thing. But number two is that it’s not a doable thing because embryonic stem cells are not made to become a heart or a liver, they’re made to become a whole fully formed organism.
So and that is teratoma. So if you implant embryonic stem cells in the skin, for example, it’s going to form a teratoma, which is all kinds of tissues, a lump of everything, which is a tumor. And that’s the limitation of embryonic stem cells. So people look back at bone stem cells in the bone marrow, adult stem cells.
And the thought was like, well, but they’re limited. They’re just stem cells in the bone marrow, they don’t have the same power. It took many years to realize that adult stem cells have the same power as embryonic stem cells with one difference, which is a mega difference, but it works to our advantage that adult stem cells will become cells with the tissue in which it migrates or in which you place it.
So you put it in the heart, it will become a hard sale, like embryonic stem cells, but just a heart cell, not other types of tissues. So it’s the power of embryonic stem cells to an extent, but without the risk of tumor formation. So now stem cells from the bone marrow have become the focus of everything that we have today, you know, in the world of stem cells. So it’s sort of a summary here of the historical development of this, this excitement in stem cell research. Okay, continue
Dr. Joel Rosen:
the conversation along this, this idea, Christian is in terms of, I know that the new research is if we further classify that into mesenchymal and Hamato poetic, we now know a lot more than Hamato poetic is not just for, necessarily so maybe give us some insight on what we’ve learned with those now going forward. You know,
Christian Drapeau:
this is another when I was talking about this being a good example of scientific development, that is another amazing example. And it is the fact that what do we do as scientists I mean, I’m not criticizing this process, it’s just a natural thing to do. We classify things just look at you go in nature, and you find a new plant species, you put a label on it, you put a name on it, and of that name, you can go into literature and find tons of things, no, none that plan that is in front of you.
But all the research that was done with other plants, that because of the name, now you’re associated with the plan that is in front of you, that’s what we do in science, we label things. And then we start to manage the labels more than the thing itself. And that’s what happened with stem cells. So you have a matter of poetic stem cells, and you put a label on it. Now, these could only do this.
Now you have another type of stem cells, we call them mesenchymal stem cells because they were originally into embryonic development, they come from the mesoderm, which is one of the layers of the embryos. So they got the name of where they come from MS and Kaimal, stem cells, and they are essentially in the bone marrow. But when people start to isolate mesenchymal stem cells, they just happen. The observation is that if you take them, you put them in a test tube, and you just turn around the test tube, empty your test tube, those MS in Kaimal, stem cells stick to the glass.
So it became a very simple method two is to isolate mesenchymal stem cells. Later it was discovered that if you take liver tissue, for example, you grind it and you do the same thing. You have liver stem cells, that now stick to the the vial, and stem cells from various tissues. So that means they are missing Kaimal stem cells, but they no longer come from the mesoderm. So the point is that suddenly that term that describes where they’re coming from, which was the label and the understanding that we have of cell lineage, now, we realize it’s completely changed.
They have used stem cells from the liver, which they transformed into pancreatic cells to make insulin, for example, they have used metabolic stem cells believed to only be blood precursors, and they were able to transform them into muscle cells into liver cells. So my point here is just to say, we’ve classified cells and that’s why I was telling you earlier on to go into all these different types of stem cells, I think opening Pandora’s box is not as clear that these are truly different stem cells and not stem cells at different stem cells globally, at a different stage in development. There is such a thing as classifying them, but I don’t think that that classification is as clear and fixed as we would like to see them.
Dr. Joel Rosen:
Right. No, thank you for elucidating that as far as I remember Are you talking about speaking at a conference and then talking to a doctor? And you said that you were the person that was presenting?
And he was skeptical about the research? Where are we now I mean, as research advances, we realize that the differentiation of, different categorized, stem cells can now break the mold and go to different places where we didn’t know before. Where are we now in this? Because I know there’s controversy in terms of you know, you’re using embryos and so forth. And it can’t, once there are enough stem cells in circulation, that doesn’t mean anything. I mean, wherever we come from the trajectory of where we’ve been,
Christian Drapeau:
I mean, in terms of that event that you’re referring to, and for the listeners, just to understand, I’m using that as an example not because it affected me it did not
Dr. Joel Rosen:
perfect person, but in general, good. Yeah. Good. So yeah, yeah.
Christian Drapeau:
So in 2007, I was talking about several events or instances where people just told me, I’m summarizing here and the funny statement, but these are actual words that were said, Son, let me just tell you thinking that stem cells can become brain cells, you know, you’re just an idiot. The point is that in 2007, although going back to this article, turning blood into brain, this was 2001, there were six years of documentation, and publication of stem cells capable of becoming brain sales.
And yet the gap between research and academia, research and medical practice is such that in 2007, this was still largely unknown. But the concept itself has gone so far in the marketplace that honestly, I don’t think today I come across anybody in the scientific literature, sorry, in the medical profession, who is going to express any doubt as to whether stem cells can become cells of various tissues, where we have a challenge, and it’s not even a challenge. It’s just a matter of education right now, the open-mindedness to this is like a light day compared to what it was.
But it’s more to say, those stem cells that right now, you go to a place to get an injection, it’s a treatment, it’s to me when I share this with the medical profession, it’s to say, those stem cells they come from your body, to begin with, they’re either in your blood in your bone marrow in your fat tissue. So they’re there, to begin with, then are better because we take them out and put them back in.
So what about as a stem cell modality to increase the number of circulation, not through an injection, but by supporting the release of your stem cells, something that is not a one-time intervention, but you can do this every day for long periods? And now we have several ongoing studies and case documentation to show that it can have a significant impact on health. So it’s that concept of releasing your stem cells. That is what I’m most engaged in, like providing education, but the response right now is light and day compared to what it was.
Dr. Joel Rosen:
Gotcha. Okay, so which is a good transition into longevity? And why is stem cells potentially a problem as we age? What happens with that? And ultimately, what you know, as we go from there, what can we do indigenously or from within to be able to support that?
Christian Drapeau:
So, I think that in longevity, the biggest discovery in that is, again, total open-mindedness like I don’t, I don’t, nobody is challenging it. However, few people have seen that kind of information. So it’s a novel concept in the marketplace. On the scientific in the scientific world, it’s the understanding that while stem cells are primarily, not true, I will have to walk back that statement, I would say at the core, in its definition, it’s the repair system of the body, you have an injury, it triggers the release of stem cells, and then it calls stem cells to that organ to repair.
I was at a conference in Turkey. It was the International Society for Stem Cell Application about two or three weeks ago. In that conference, there was a doctor who said, it is largely known now that stem cells will only migrate in a tissue that has an injury. And it’s interesting because this was three weeks ago, and it is not untrue. If you release stem cells today, the bulk of the stem cells will go where there is an injury.
So if you look at them on that day, or within a few days, yes, this statement is true. But in the background in that is to me, one of the biggest discoveries in the world of stem cells is that they are the repair system, but in the background, to a lesser extent, they are the maintenance system. If you look three months later, the stem cells that were released significantly three Months ago, they’re now in your heart, in your liver, in your brain, in your pancreas, and your lungs.
They’re everywhere in your body. And my point with this, if I go to the conclusion of all of this is that we have this general idea that you’re born your age, and your organs start to fail because you’ve lost sales and function in your tissues. So when you’re 60 years old, you have a 60-year-old liver that is starting to struggle as a 60-year-old lung or pancreas starting to struggle. And this is not true. When you’re 60 years old, you have a two-three-year-old pancreas.
And for a two to three-year-old liver, and a four to six-year-old pancreas, you have half of a new heart every 25 years, you have a new lining of the intestine every five days and your skin every month, everything is constantly in turnover. Constantly. Turnover means you lose cells every day. But to stay healthy, you need to replace the cells that are being lost. That is one of the primordial roles of stem cells is keeping you healthy as you age. The problem. The crux of the whole problem in terms of longevity, is that your stem cells that are produced by red marrow, you are bone with red marrow, but that red marrow converts into yellow marrow fairly early in your in our lives.
By age 30, we have lost 90% of our red marrow. And that means somewhere in your 30s, you crossed that line where you no longer have enough stem cells in circulation to fully offset that turnover process that is just natural. And from that day, you start to accumulate a day-to-day deficit that will in 1015 20 years down the road be any one of your age-related diseases that is expressed in your health by an organ that has developed a deficiency because it cannot repair effectively.
So I published this view 10 years ago, in a journal called the Journal of Stem Cell Research and Therapies. And with this science emerging, I wrote, there’s a way to test if truly stem cells play that kind of role in Alvin’s longevity, we simply have to go and count the number of stem cells naturally present in the blood of people who have developed any one of those so-called age-related diseases, and compare that with what you find in healthy people of the same age. At this point, many of these studies have been done.
If you count the number of stem cells people have developed erectile dysfunction, pretension atherosclerosis, heart disease, diabetes, liver failure, COPD, lung disease, heart cardio, heart failure, cardiac heart disease, and general Parkinson’s, Alzheimer’s, lupus arthritis. I mean, the list is growing. Anytime they look at it, we find the same thing muscle dystrophy. All these people have on average 50% or less than the number of stem cells that we find and a healthy person of the same age meaning because you have fewer stem cells in circulation, you cannot compensate for several hours every day, you will lose your health faster than somebody who has more stem cells. It therefore becomes the core of your longevity strategy. It’s not the only thing. But it becomes the core of your longevity strategy. Allow your body to maintain the health of your organs as you age.
Dr. Joel Rosen:
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Oh, that’s wonderful. And I wanted to talk to you about that I have written down here stem cell homeostasis, right, and being able to take the monitor and I explained to people simply when I’m working with them when they’re exhausted and burnt out, I look at it as supplying demand, right.
And if you have more demand than supply, a lot of bills aren’t getting paid. And if you have more supply than demand, then you can pay back some bills that you haven’t paid in a while. And I think that was echoing the fact that I was curious. I was going to ask you how we measure the stem cells I’ve listened to a lot of your interviews, but I never heard that, and when you determine that these aren’t quite primordial but They do go and after they’ve gone to the tissue injury, they can now go circulate in other places and repair those tissues as well. Was that done through some signature or some kind of following those particular stem cells that had been released? Christian to know where they went afterward? Yeah, I
Christian Drapeau:
mean, these are, I would say, oddities, it’s data that you find in the scientific literature, I would not generalize that information to say, that stem cells can go into tissue, leave, and go somewhere else, that this is like a common process. I won’t say that. What I’m saying is just that this understanding that once, a stem cell has started to commit in a certain lineage, it can never revert and go into another lineage data exists to show that when you marked stem cells in the liver, or you isolate a stem cell from the liver, and then you put in the pancreas, it starts to become a pancreatic cell producing insulin, that was shown us to be a possibility. So that’s, that’s really what I meant when I shared that kind of information.
Right. So to come back to your your previous question, we quantify stem cells, generally speaking, using Flow cytometry. So it’s a machine, which is essentially a tube, very, very fine tube. So you, when you inject sales in that tube, they line up one behind the other, they flow in that fine tube.
And there’s a place where you get several lasers in a photo photosensitive receptors sensor, and then it would sense all kinds of things colors, luminosity, radiance, size because when you have a laser, there’s a shadow if there’s a sales like measure the size of the shadow, so you get all kinds of data about the cell. And you can use markers.
So you can use a marker for stem cells with a red dye, a marker for primitive stem cells, or in advance, progenitor cells. So at the end with all these markers, using a flow cytometer that has several of these lasers, you can start to document how many sales you are, that are stem cells, young stem cells, advanced stem cells, stem cells committed not committed, all that kind of stuff, small. So now you have your V cells.
So that’s how you scientifically count stem cells. Now, the tool to do this, the famous flow cytometer is not a common piece of equipment. So you won’t find that in your normal blood lab, you know, where you go to do a blood test. So counting stem cells is not a common thing to do. So you could not go today and just have your stem cells counted unless, you know a lab would have this machine.
And they will agree to do those tests for you. If they do and it happens, I have seen it, it may cost you $2,000 to get your cell count. This being said, with what we know of stem cells, there are fluctuations during the day, there are fluctuations day to day, and one measurement is probably not going to give you your measurement. So we might have to do this two, or three times to get some sort of an average of what would be your baseline number of stem cells. So given the cost of these tests, the cost of the equipment, and the rarity of these equipment, it’s not easy to do. I’m working on developing right now a piece of equipment, it’s just a matter of having the time to finalize all of this.
So I’m getting into this, hopefully, we can reach that in 2023. But on a piece of equipment that may cost $5,000, to put into into a clinic or lab to be able to count the number of stem cells in a way that may not be as precise as what you would do with a flow cytometer. But it’s enough to be able to tell you, you are in that range of stem cells. So you should know that right now, you are at risk for developing a problem in you know, in 10 to 20 years.
What I want to do now as I’m working on doing a meta-analysis of the entire scientific literature, throughout all the studies, I believe that we can derive several stem cells that we can consider a threshold, if you go below that number of stem cells, you will be considered somebody that has fewer stem cells than what would be average or a healthy population. So you are at risk for developing these age-related problems. So now we can understand stem cell fat stem cell number as a risk factor, and we can quantify it. And now we have PLANT BASE compounds that we can help and take every day to put more stem cells in circulation. So that’s kind of the landscape of where I’m going with all of this really
Dr. Joel Rosen:
interesting. And I think that there is a need for that. And we talked about this beforehand. One thing I like about what you’re doing is the dietary supplement Health and Education Act where you don’t want to just have charlatan-like claims about this going to turn your age back and it works for me but you want to have a structure-function thing before we get into what it does and what are the compounds that it’s doing that are being used.
The question would be, until then until there’s that machine that’s out there. What other biomarkers? Or are you aligning yourself with? Have you looked into DNA methylation? Or if you looked into other types of biomarkers that could be correlated quite strongly and be a proxy for that level of stem cell? Or would it be more subjective? I’m older, I don’t feel as well, looking at some inflammatory markers. What would be a good? I guess? What would it be called? A good? Just standing until then?
Christian Drapeau:
Yeah. Okay. Very interesting question. I hope my answer will be interesting. I don’t think so. Right now, until we have a marker, I would say, the best way to see how many stem cells you have in your blood would be the next time you have an injury or cut something or you go to the gym, you work out super hard. And you know, you’ll be sore today, How long are you sore? What is your real recovery or healing time? And that is going to be your main marker for how many stem cells you have in circulation. If you have a cut, within a week, that cut should be closed.
And within three weeks, it should be pretty much done. If it’s longer than this, you don’t have or if you form a keloid scar like a scar that is visible. That means the lack of stem cells in circulation forces your local fibroblasts and your skin to seal that scar that cut, or you go to the gym and then your recovery time is longer, it means you don’t have enough stem cells to repair the micro lesions that are the source of the inflammation. So these are things that you can observe in your life.
And they’ll give you a clue that you don’t have a lot of stem cells. I have not so far aside from the technique that I’m telling you about, I’m working on two counts of stem cells, and I have not looked at markers. And I’m not saying that there might not be one that we could use my first reaction with markers because understand these markers have shown up on the marketplace after I started this journey on stem cells.
And as these markers are evolving, and you come and you say gee, I was able to remove that to shave, let’s say, three years on my biological age, you know, and it’s great. I’m using some of the plants that we have documented at a stem cell mobilizer, and I can reverse severe Parkinson’s in an individual, I can take somebody on a heart transplant list, and within a few months is normal, he has normal heart function. We have people with spinal cord injuries that are regaining mobility, does it matter whether they are three years younger in their biological age?
So I’m looking at what we get with stem cell mobilizers. And I’m looking at the landscape. And I’m almost thinking, if you give me the choice between gaining greater functionality, greater quality of life, like much greater functionality in life, repairing my heart, or getting three years younger on the market doesn’t tell you you’re younger, it’s telling you that marker that has been with a mix of marketing and science tied to something that we call your biological age, which is just a marker and a concept. Which one do you choose?
And for me, it was like, it’s so obvious that I’m going to boost my ability to repair. So I’ve looked at this, probably making a mistake, looking at this without too much focus. So the way the market is developing, I think the places they are to start to look at what kind of markers could be associated with stem cell function, aside from counting the number of stem cells, which to me in my world right now is going to be one of the most important marker for longevity, how many stem cells you have in your blood today? Because it will tell me how healthy you’ll be in 10 years.
Dr. Joel Rosen:
Yeah, if we can come up with the continual stem cell in you know, good, you know, my monitor would be fantastic. I’m thinking though, so I know as far as some of these Hallmark, longevity markers like vo to max handgrip strength for 6.3 volume, that they can look at a person’s DNA methylation profile, and kind of get an understanding of those that are in the top 99th percentile of those particular markers.
What that what that DNA methylation profile look like and use that as a signature to benchmark other things the reason I bring it up is I agree with you I agree that we want to feel better. I mean, the proof is in the pudding and my feeling younger I’m I’m more active. I enjoy my life. I agree. But these are people at least that I’ve seen that are been told that nothing’s wrong, that their lab tests are normal, that everything’s okay and they feel like crap, and they want to have some kind of validation of what they’re doing is working. Right, so I asked him from that point not so much in terms of oh, look, prove it to me that it’s working or not. So I don’t know if you wanted to add on that, or just give me any comments on that. I’m
Christian Drapeau:
with you. I think that they’re valuable things to look at. But I’m saying exactly what you said if your markers are all good. Blood markers are all good, but you feel like crap. The point is like, what is it going to be? What is going to change? You’re feeling like crap. And to me, that is really what matters.
And it could pass through some markers. Yeah, I mean, I had a discussion not long ago with somebody who was deep into these markers. And what she was sharing is that she said, Here I am, my biological age has increased by two years, but I’m feeling great. And I have this friend of mine, who is your biological age, she shaved three years, but she said she’s feeling like crap.
So she was putting in just, in context, the fact that its biological age is a concept. I’m not saying it has no value, but it’s a concept. And calling it biological age makes us in our mind, cross that gap and just say I might biologically I’m younger because we use it as a concept. And all I’m saying is that it’s just a concept. We have some markers that have changed me, quality of life, and our ability to enjoy our life is by far the greatest marker that we can tie with stem cells,
Dr. Joel Rosen:
right? That’s where stem cells come in. Right. So as far as that goes, I’m always interested in, your methodology and your open-mindedness as far as being a brain neurophysiologist and asking the outside question, okay, why, and I got to investigate this. And if this is working for someone, that means that there’s something within this that’s giving me insight to explore deeper.
And I liked the idea that you would ask a couple of people, okay, tell me what the one if you’re stuck on an island, what would be the one supplement that would you would use or nutrient that you would use to give you the overarching biggest benefit? Just curious, how did your brain work in terms of Well, that’s gotta be reparative. That’s got to be protective. That’s got to be stem cell-based. I’m curious as to how, how that kind of came in, like, at what point, you benchmark the question with the stem cell?
Christian Drapeau:
I mean, honestly, I don’t know if I have a good answer to that question. I’m, I’m assigned to I’m born that way. You know, every time I look at something, I want to understand it, I poke it, I study it. I’m just like, I would probably be a pathetic clinician, I’m just not good with like, evaluating people, and following them in the treatment. I’m a researcher. So with that sort of mindset, when I look at something, yeah, I just tried to dissect it down and understand, you know, understand how it works.
And so facing those cases with that plant, this blue-green algae, not having an understanding for it, in terms of a mechanism of action, coming across this article about the brain, then those ideas came up now they had to be tested. So we tested them. And after we tested them, and we found that indeed, it was correct that Clint was acting as a stem cell mobilizer, my mind just immediately went into this place to say, what are the other plants we evolved in symbiosis with the environment, there has to be other plants. Just like the immune system, there’s not only one plant affecting the immune system, there have to be others.
How do you find them? We asked the same question what plant has been associated with many benefits throughout history? And that’s how we start to just investigate different plants. So it was it’s just like I would say, just a scientific that following the process of scientific investigation. Right,
Dr. Joel Rosen:
excellent. So now we do have the stem region, and give us an idea on I guess how you formulated it with the ingredients that you did, or what the ingredients that are unique to that specific compound and give us some insight on what we have now.
Christian Drapeau:
So it was just like everything else like observations, scientific investigation, so we found the first plant the blue-green algae, it’s not the strongest, but it was the first and it’s the one with which we have the greatest amount of documentation just because it was the first. Then we came across, across seabuckthorn berry extract from the Tibetan Plateau. Probably one of the most interesting plants and I think you were referring to that because I shared that in some of the podcasts or some other stories or articles. I’m in China. I have access to several biochemists who have worked with plants that are part of the Chinese Pharmacopoeia and I asked them okay, you’re lost on an island and you can only bring one plant from Chinese Pharmacopoeia, which one would it be?
And I was expecting something exotic, something probably that I had never heard of. And they all said seabuckthorn, Berry. And I mean, it’s not by itself like exotic. Anyway, I went into the scientific literature, I started to dig and I found a plethora of information, basically revealing that it’s been used for more than 2000 years in Chinese medicine, Tibetan Medicine, and Mongolian medicine, but a disease of the song of the heart, cardiovascular system, diabetes, to help the body repair from a burn, bone fracture, digestive system issues. So you look at the spread.
And that was telling me stem cells, and we found that indeed, an extract from seabuckthorn berry from the Tibetan Plateau, acts as a stem cell mobilizer with pharmacodynamics, completely different from what we had with Blue Green Algae. So it’s a different mechanism of action. So the synergy of developing stem regions was to blend ingredients that show different mechanisms of action.
That way, one builds on the other, because oftentimes with the same mechanism of action, you add stuff, but it doesn’t make it into a stronger product. The next big ingredient was Aloe microflora from Madagascar. And this is coming. Met a pharmacist whom she had traveled to in many countries in the world like Papua New Guinea, and the Congo saw America looking for plants for Parkinson’s and Alzheimer’s.
And when I asked her, is there a plan that the healers told you, this plant is good for everything? Of course, she says nothing is good for everything. So I gave her a copy of my book. And then when she came back, she said, I understand now, it’s not a plan that does everything. It does one thing release stem cells, but people will experience it in various, you know, many kinds of ways.
So she said interesting, because I do have a plant from Madagascar, on her last trip on the way to the airport, our guide and translator stopped at a market scooped a whole bag of these black beads, and said, study that. But what do you do as a scientist when somebody says a study that, you know if you study it for what, so it wasn’t a freezer for five years? So she sent me those little beads and we did like we always do, we consumed those beads ourselves and we took our blood before and after. And we saw the biggest response that we had seen so far.
So if I accelerate the whole story, aloe microflora endemic to Madagascar used for centuries to make a product called the homeowner only in Madagascar, they use it for all kinds of oil problems. It’s so far to plan that as the strongest effect on stem cell release. So the first version of STEM region adds those three ingredients. And I must add that along the way. As we studied things like goji berry, medicinal mushrooms, and colostrum, which are also associated with many benefits, we found something different.
These plants or products with colostrum, trigger the migration of stem cells out of the blood into tissues. This is a part that is very poorly documented in the scientific literature. But to me, it makes so much sense if stem cells need to migrate to go and repair. And we can release them from the bone marrow. If I stumble across something that will facilitate their migration into tissue then let’s blend the two. So I released them and then I stimulated and drove them into tissues.
So the first version was those three plants, and then two main plants that are acting as stem cell migrators if you want, but as I’m sharing this with doctors, I had friends doctors in Malaysia and Turkey, in the Middle East, and I was testing the formula. One of the doctors told me you know when I blend stem region with Jensen, I get better results for my patients, I started to dive into Jensen and I find I found several studies documented how not to Jensen, so the original Chinese Jensen, that takes like if at least seven years to grow, and then your land will be three to five years in fertile. So you need to furlough that land for five, five years to be able to have another crop.
So it’s your most expensive Jensen because it takes a long time to grow into it Jensen adds specific notoginseng asides that have been documented to act as stem cell mobilizers. So we then added that to the stem region. So the formula slowly grew to what it is today, with the five top plants documented to release themselves. The two main ingredients that we have documented drive the migration of stem cells out of the blood into the tissue, that’s what the STEM region is. That’s
Dr. Joel Rosen:
awesome. So how long has it been on the market now for this last version?
Christian Drapeau:
Yeah, this last version here in the US is about two years, two years.
Dr. Joel Rosen:
Okay. Yeah, and I know that what you’re getting so I mean, again, structure-function, but it’s hard to discount when you’re seeing some testimonials, of people that have had burns and I think the I guess Is the question and it’s a deviation. What are the things that can ultimately increase the acceleration of depletion of the release of stem cells?
The reason I’m asking this is more in chronic health, chronic stress, right, we have heard you talk about chronic stress, and how somehow that is, those stem cells are less effective, right than acute stress that know where to go, how to get signaled how to get utilized and migrate and differentiate. But as far as the chronic stress, maybe that’s why the ginseng is so helpful in that regard. But I guess maybe we just switch it up a little bit as to what the things that accelerate the loss of stem cells are, I
Christian Drapeau:
am not aware of anything that has been studied to show what accelerates the depletion of stem cells. And we need to be clear depletion is a word that is used for two different phenomena. And we need to understand the difference, there is your red marrow that shrinks into yellow marrow as we age.
And so we’re born with red marrow everywhere, as an adult, the red marrow remains in the skull, the sternum, the ribcage, the pelvis, and the head of the long bones. But as we age, even that shrinks, and the main source of stem cells will be your pelvic bone. So, so that continues to shrink. I’m not aware of anything that has been documented to accelerate that shrinking or prevent it, you can stimulate the proliferation of stem cells in the red marrow with human growth hormones, and hyperbaric chamber treatments. These are the two things that I’m aware of the one thing that you can do to that is known to be sorry, so this is in the bone marrow.
So far, nothing is known. I think it’s it belongs to future research to determine if is there something that we can do to slow down that conversion, if we can find something like this, it probably would be the optimal longevity thing to do to slow down that conversion, because you age because of that, that depletion of stem cells in the bone marrow. Now that red marrow that you have today, or in five years, or in 10 years, that red marrow produces stem cells at the same rate.
So if you stimulate the release of stem cells from that red marrow, you don’t deplete that red, that red marrow, it’s like a well, if you take more water from the well, the level of your well won’t change, it keeps producing. Now, those stem cells are released from the bone marrow. So we call that because sometimes the word depletion or exhaustion is used. Exhaustion is not that phenomenon that is conversion.
And it’s it happens whether you like it or not, these stem cells will reach tissues, and they will replenish the stem cell layer of your organs and tissues in your body. These organs and tissues are subjected to stress, degeneration, and several losses, and as you age that loss accelerates. And there’s a point that stem cell layer gets depleted in its ability to maintain that tissue. That is when that tissue organ starts to experience, a significant thickening, a significant phase of decline.
The stem cell layer is depleted or exhausted. The only thing that you can do to support that tissue now is to put more stem cells in circulation so that they can go and replenish that stem cell depletion in the tissues. So when we look at the hallmark of aging, which is stem cell exhaustion, that’s in your tissues, and you can only change this by releasing stem cells from the bone marrow. Does that make sense?
Dr. Joel Rosen:
Yes, yes. Intelligent stem cell mobilization.
Christian Drapeau:
Correct? Correct.
Dr. Joel Rosen:
Okay. No, that’s it’s fascinating. I guess, the follow-up question I have is, I know that you heard we’re conducting research in France, with IBS, like patients that have such tremendous turnover. Has that been concluded at all?
Christian Drapeau:
No, that study has not started yet. We’re still we’re still waiting. And a lot of these studies, we’re waiting on receiving all of our first round of investment now it’s completed, so that we’re starting all these studies. So we have a study on congestive heart failure that is ongoing. We started to have preliminary data. So I’m, I’m working on the first publication. We are starting a study on Parkinson’s, actually, this month, in December, and we have one of our ideas that is ready to start.
So it’s just a matter of initiating that study wants to one in Parkinson, as started. And we’re targeting those based on what we find in the scientific literature, but also what we have seen over the past, you know, 1520 years that I’ve been doing this. So we have had several cases of people who had very significant improvements in cardiac function, and that is why we now started This study on congestive heart failure.
So we are now a little over a year into that study, and we have a limited number of patients about 10 patients per group. But what we can show is that indeed, releasing your stem cells can have a significant impact on cardiac function. All the patients so far in the study after six months are normalized. So that study is done to compare a blend of these plant extracts that release themselves with stem cell injections.
So when that is completed, we’ll publish all that data, we’re starting a study on Parkinson’s because we have seen those kinds of cases in the past, and IBS or digestive issues are the same because you have a new lining of the intestine every five days, it is an area of your body, that depends entirely on your supply of stem cells, the day that you have, not the day, but when you have a disease, like ulcerative colitis, or any kind of have issues in the gut, your attempt to repair the problem exhausts locally, that layer of stem cells, when you have reached them selling exhaustion in that area, that’s when you as a patient now experience an acute phase.
Now you have to bleed your blood in your stool, now you have credit, now you have like what it is you the tissue can no longer repair, the only way to make it repair is to put more stem cells in the circulation that will replenish the stem cell layer, give a break to that area. And then that area will be able to start to function. Normally, if you have not resolved the issue, you need to keep digging and finding what’s the cause of it. But at least you have given functionality to that tissue and relief. So we have seen many of these cases over the years, there’s a lot of studies showing that stem cell injection can affect digestive conditions like this. So that is why we have that kind of condition as one of our next studies. Right?
Dr. Joel Rosen:
No fascinating. So add that to the list of if you take longer to recover from the gym, if you take longer to heal from a cut. And if you have any GI issues that are out of hand like that, then you know, you’ve depleted, your stem cells, and you need to support endogenous stem cell mobilization. So as far as a parting question, and thanks for all your time, Cristian. I always like you know the age.
This is the age-reversing blueprint podcast. And I guess it’s kind of an easy question for you. But what do you wish you would have known then that you know, now that could have maybe slowed your rate of aging, more helpful, knowing the information that you do know now? Well,
Christian Drapeau:
on the stem cells, I mean, I’ve been doing this for, like 2722 years. So I started to consume these products every day, you know, for the past 20-some years. So that one I’ve been I’ve been with it for quite some time. But of the things that I know today that I wish I would have known before, it’s probably all the things that are around what in my world stem cell function is the core of human health.
I mean, I’m saying this to say you have a cold, what are you going to do if you have a cold, you’ll support your immune system. I mean, this is the first thing that comes to mind. What are you going to do if you have an injury, we have a process a degenerative process in your body. Well, you will tap into your regenerative system, which is your repair system, it’s your stem cells.
So it’s almost like to me, it’s the core, but then there are other things around it. So when a stem cell gets into a tissue, it starts to multiply, it starts to age, the end of its life is going to be a senescence cell. So along the way, we can use senolytics to make it so that when you have a senescence cell, it doesn’t stay around and starts to be just an old sale, not doing a job. You know, sometimes I tell people, it’s a little bit like a soccer team. If you’ve got a 60 or 70-year-old guy on your soccer team, do you want to give him another five years? Or do you want to just make him retire and bring another 15-year-old?
So that’s what stem cells do. So let’s have those senescence cells killed kick the bucket by using senolytics Take your aging cells rejuvenate by using a toughie G and release themselves to rejuvenate your tissues with new cells. That kind of knowledge. I knew this 15 years ago, I would start right away by combining all of those stem cells with senolytics with a toughie G.
And then probably strategies that are going to help the body accumulate as we age, many garbage much garbage, if you want in the body chelation as to be part of your strategy when you cross 50. Does Chelation do things fast and fast? I mean, I’ve done that for many years. But these are the things that we need to do to just cleanse the body and allow this native ability, innate ability to repair to do its job naturally.
And the last one, the last one if I could add this one is to understand I mean, this is more of my I’m a scientist but I’ve been meditating for years. If I were to say that there’s one thing that plays an enormous role in overall health is the peaceful you are in your head, you know so many problems in your life come from overthinking everything. So peace of mind is to me, like core aspects of human health. So add that to your old Arsenal if you want to have longevity. And don’t do it for longevity doing for the peace of mind and what it brings to you. But it will become one of your main tools here in longevity. No,
Dr. Joel Rosen:
it’s awesome. I agree with everything that you said. And I like to keep that analogy running in terms of if you’re if you treat your body like a business and your expenses exceed your income, you’re not going to be in business for very long. So I like to think of it that way. So the company is no joke.
Christian Drapeau:
I’m sorry, I like this analogy. Because you I’ve used this analogy a lot. So I think it’s a good place to summarize everything we’ve talked about, to me stem cells are like your bank account, how many stem cells you have in your blood is your bank account, how many you release your income, how many cells you lose in your tissues, your expenses, your body is like your bank account, when you’re young, you’ve got plenty of red marrow.
So you can lose as many cells as you want, you never even notice it. So you don’t think about your health in your 20s. Like, you hear somebody talking about health and you don’t even know what it refers to. Because you’re Superman in your 20s or you’re in your teens. And then at some point, the day that your income no longer meets your expenses. And now you start to have a deficit in your bank account, you’re still not bankrupt, you just start to realize, oh me my body is not like it used to be the bankruptcy which is the disease that will come down the road as you slowly add this deficit every day.
That’s exactly it’s a min amazing image of what stem cells are. And a lack of funds. It can be for you not being able to pay your mortgage, somebody else not being able to pay their study somebody else’s car payment, or somebody’s health payment. So it’s it’s it could be held houses, it can be many different things. But in the end, it’s all if a lack of money in your body is the same thing.
For one person is diabetes. Somebody else it’s our potential, somebody else’s heart disease, somebody else’s digestive issues, the liver degeneration, but for all of them, the core cause is not enough stem cells to go and repair what is their Winkley weak link in their body? I think it’s an amazing analogy. Yeah.
Dr. Joel Rosen:
And you know, bringing you with the mind and not overthinking accelerates your overhead accelerates your expenses depletes your income even further. Right? So why not have that work for you? Awesome information. Christian. I’m excited to see the progress that you make. And we’d love to continue to support your mission. And I’ll have links to how they can get the product in the show notes and the description of this video. And we’d love to keep an open invitation for a part two somewhere down the road.
Christian Drapeau:
Absolutely. Thank you so much. There was a there was a great discussion. Hi,
Dr. Joel Rosen:
thank you so much for watching our age-reversing blueprint podcast. If you’ve made it this far, we sincerely thank you for your attention and interest in reversing your age. If you’re looking to get more information on today’s topic or other podcasts that we’ve had, be sure to check out the show notes and be sure to check out Dr. Joel rosen.com. Have an awesome day.
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