Troped Out

Welcome to another episode of Troped Out Podcast! I am Emma C Wells. With me is my partner in crime—EJ Wenstrom. And we’ve got thriller author Layne Fargo with us for this episode!

Layne Fargo writes killer books for feminist killjoys. She's the author of the thriller novels Temper and They Never Learn (currently in development as a television show), and coauthor of the bestselling Audible Original Young Rich Widows. She also co-created, co-hosts, and produces the podcast Unlikeable Female Characters on Lit Hub Radio.

Layne lives in Chicago with a rescue pit bull and cat who are best friends, and the only man she never wants to murder (well, almost never). When she's not plotting twisted stories, she enjoys long walks in the local cemetery, binging trashy TV shows, and spending all her money at indie bookstores.

• EJ insists we start by talking about the trashy TV shows because she just finished Love is Blind season 3 on Netflix.
• Layne’s favorite at the moment is FBOY Island on HBO Max–which she rates as absolute garbage.
• Em wants to watch Love is Blind because she’s heard a lot about it. Her agent might be obsessed with it.
• E.J. concurs. It’s hard to stop watching–though somehow her spouse watched seasons 1 and 2 with her and then declined to watch season 3, leaving her in trashland alone.
• Layne’s partner pretends not to want to watch but then is always nearby when it’s on.
• Em says we’re lucky, her husband is over here watching stuff like “10 ways to make your own knives.” Or they watch food shows.
• Food shows! EJ recommends Chef’s Table on Netflix. (And insists she’s not sponsored by Netflix.)
• Everyone agrees being sponsored by Netflix would be a sweet deal.
• But Chef’s Table: They feature amazing chefs doing innovative stuff, like this butcher in Tuscany who serves these elaborate multi-course meal that uses every part of the animal.
• Speaking of using every part of the animal, Em’s been reading TENDER IS THE FLESH, which she deferred until after THanksgiving before it turned her vegan.
• But the next titles in her TBR were BONES AND ALL and A CERTAIN HUNGER.
• For the record BONES AND ALL is actually a really endearing coming-of-age story but also the girl eats people. Bones and all.
• It’s also going to be a movie soon, starring Timothy Chalamet.
• EJ appreciates someone else bringing the cannibalism aspect to the podcast for once.
• Layne calls it: Female cannibalism is having a mini-trend moment in fiction.
• A CERTAIN HUNGER was actually released from indie publisher Unnamed Press and gained traction on TikTok and became a huge success. We love these stories! It also started as an Audible Original.
• Speaking of Audible Originals, let’s talk YOUNG RICH WIDOWS.
• Layne co-authored it with three other authors–Kimberly Belle, Cate Holahan, Vanessa Lillie–-each of them wrote one of the core characters.
• They’re working on the sequel right now!
• EJ wonders what it’s like working with a group as an author, since it’s usually a loner role.
• They wrote it during COVID over Zoom, and it was almost like a TV writers’ room. It was fun!
• This book was more campy and rompy than what Layne usually writes, so it was a fun change of pace.
• It was set in the ‘80s and they wanted it to feel like an ‘80s movie with capers and crimes and fabulous clothes.
• We love super-campy here!
• Em asks if when you write for audiobook first, do you approach the writing any differently?
• A little–Layne said they focused a lot on distinct voices and a cinematic feel.
• She’s working on a separate project that will be fully scripted with sound effects and original music and stuff.
• Based on her other books, EJ is ready for one of the widows to end up being the killer. But NO SPOILERS.
• We love our murdery, rotten women.
• Layne agrees, a murdery femme fatale is one of her favorite tropes.
• Em asks if she has a favorite stabby woman character in books, tv, etc.?
• It’s hard to choose but Layne does love Villanelle–she likes a murderer who is enjoying herself!
• She’s gotten criticism for writing murdery women who don’t feel bad about it, but she insists they have no conflicted feeling about it.
• Em appreciates that since the new Taylor Swift album Midnights dropped, THEY NEVER LEARN has come through her TikTok feed a lot with ‘Vigilante Shit.’
• Layne says ‘Vigilante Shit’ is her jam! Her sales definitely went up when that started. She’s ready for the TV so they can use it as the theme song.
• We’re all big fans of the rotten women here – Em also wrote a stellar murdery woman and shares amazing teasers for it on TikTok even though it’s not out yet!
• So why do we love these very very bad women?
• When you write a female character who enjoys killing it’s a real hangup for publishing.
• Even more so if she has sex, has a normal life, etc.
• You can’t even have a normal, generally good female character without someone having a gripe.
• For Layne it’s wish fulfillment–men make her angry sometimes, especially those in the public eye and in politics. Even if it’s not murder, there’s just something satisfying about celebrating women behaving badly. In books, we don’t have to suffer the real life consequences.
• Em points out there’s no “unlikeable male character” trope – only women. For men it’s just a character.
• EJ adds it almost feels political to write unlikeable women.
• Em remembers reading GONE GIRL–she fell in love with Amy Dunne and never looked back. She needed more books like this.
• Also, counting down for the release of MY LOVELY WIFE.
• Layne remembers GONE GIRL as a formative moment as an author. Before Gillian Flynn came out, she heard two women talking about how much they hated Amy, but they were there, and they were so fired up. The story drove them to finish and come out to see the author.
• Em asks if Layne has a favorite of her books, or one that she feels most represents what she’s about.
• Layne’s favorite is TEMPER. But a lot of readers seem to prefer THEY NEVER LEARN.
• The one she’s working on now is more like TEMPER.
• Em got to learn a lot ab...