The Podcaster's Guide to a Visible Voice

Warm Up to a Healthier, More Confident Voice with Nic Redman - EP 86


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Oct 28 2024 42 mins  
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What can you do to keep your voice in tip-top shape? As podcasters, we use our voices a lot. Chances are, that essential instrument of yours has temporarily abandoned you in the past. Whether the symptom stems from getting sick or from overuse, waking up to croaks, rasps, or silence is an awful feeling, especially if deadlines or interviews are looming. In this timely episode, Mary returns to the mic on the heels of her own voice loss to talk swollen vocal folds and slug tongue with Nic Redman, a vocal coach and voiceover artist who has spent almost 20 years helping professional speakers hone their voices.

Nic is a font of healthy voice inspiration, sharing everything from the importance of hydration (and the truth about which beverages count) to warmups that will get your tongue trilling, your lips flapping, and your vocal cords folding. Come to terms with what you can and can’t control about your listener’s reaction to your unique voice and be reminded about what a privilege it is, literally and figuratively, to have a voice. This episode is packed with light science and exaggerated facial expressions you can practically see, all in the interest of keeping you talking for years to come.

Join Nic and Mary for interactive vocal warmups and other voice health tips:

  • Silly faces and weird noises that can help your voice even when you’re sick
  • Why you need to get out of your own head and stop self-editing your voice
  • How to sound just as energized at the top of your episode as you do at the end
  • The benefit of vocal warmups beyond just keeping your voice healthy

Links worth mentioning from the episode:

Engage with Nic:

Connect with Mary!

Show Credits:

Transcript with Audio Description:

<< MUSIC IN - GHOSTHOOD FEATURING SARA AZRIEL “LET’S GO” BEGINS >>

MARY: << VOCAL WARM UP NOISES >> That is a good lion roar. That's what I like to do. The trills and the lion roars. Ah, vocal warmups. They are really, really handy. Actually, you know, on my last episode, I did talk about losing my voice and how your voice is truly what makes or breaks your podcast. And, you know, it's been a month since that and I still feel a little dry in the throat. So, you know, these vocal warmups are really, really helping.

And luckily enough, if you can see a silver lining to losing my voice, I already had this interview scheduled with Nic Redman when I lost my voice. So kind of good timing because she gives us some really great tips. Nic has recorded and spoken for a living for nearly 20 years and coaches people to vocally free at home on the mic every day. She has been featured multiple times on BBC and Times Radio, as well as the Guardian, Irish Times and the Metro. So she really knows what she's talking about here. And some of these tips about podcasting while you're sick is so great because we're doing it real live in the moment with me, but also that preventative side that so many podcasters don't think about. And you know what, sometimes I skip over it myself.

So this episode is really great about learning that preventative side too. So it's all about before you ever even lose your voice from using it too much, you gotta listen to Nic and what she has to say. But aside from the vocal health, we also get into the depths of the problems of self monitoring your own voice. That leads to a lot of concern for how we sound and how we're perceived versus owning our voice. She gives a lot of great examples for this during this episode. So make sure you practice along, when we're doing our vocal warmups and start thinking about how you can also get out of your own head, because these vocal warmups are about more than just warming up those vocal cords.

So, yeah, get ready. Let's do some shoulder rolls while we are listening to the intro music of this episode. I always forget about the shoulders. Oh, you're gonna love these tips from Nic, it's just reminding me about all the things I need to do.

All right, this is episode 86 with Nic Redman on the Podcaster's Guide to a Visible Voice.

<< WOMAN SINGS: So so so so let’s go >>

MARY: Nic thank you so much for joining me here on my podcast. I love that we finally get to meet over this platform.

<< INTRO MUSIC ENDS >>

NIC: Me too. Thanks for having me.

MARY: Okay, first off, let's just get right to the nitty gritty about the health of your voice, because one, podcasters never think about that until they get sick. And two, I lost my voice four days ago before this recording, so I'm still a little froggy. Excuse the frog in my throat.

NIC: That's alright.

MARY: And I remember too, actually, in my radio days when I used to work in radio, coaching voices, reading scripts, and getting the announcers behind the mic and stuff. Whenever the announcers got sick, they lost their voice, but they still needed to talk. And I feel like that is also the same as a podcaster. It's a podcaster's worst nightmare come to life.

So what can podcasters do? Aside from, oh, just stop using your voice, because we get that advice a lot.

NIC: Yeah, not useful, is it?

MARY: No…

NIC: We can't.

MARY: …so what can we do?

NIC: Okay, I love this conversation because, like you say, often with podcasters and professional speakers, it's they come to me when they need a cure, not for prevention. You know, it's always cure rather than prevention. So I love when we get to talk about prevention, how lucky all your listeners are to get a few wee tips before it happens. Because I have to say, I've been in your position as a, as a voiceover artist and as a podcaster, and I've lost my voice and, you know, lost money and lost work, and it's just so stressful. So I'm so sorry that you're going through it.

If we were going through this as a consultation, she says metaphorically pushing her glasses off her hose, the first thing I would ask you, of course, is what's happened. So it's always important for the, as the voice user to sort of clarify for yourself if the voice loss is because of illness, like a cold, or cold and flu season, or allergies, or whether it's overuse, that's the first thing.

Because if it's overused, it's often not as simple as, oh, this will pass in a few days. Rest, hydrate, extra vitamins, you know, a few little rehab exercises, they'll be fine. If you're losing your voice a lot or you feel tired towards the end of your batch recording days or big interviews or live episodes where the adrenaline's pumping, then it is worth having a little natter to someone like me just to work out what's going on with the technique. So, that's the first thing I would always ask, but I know that yours is illness. So we'll go from an illness perspective << LAUGHS >> for this particular consultation.

MARY: Yes. Thank you.

NIC: The first thing is definitely hydration. That's easy, right? Just drink loads. Loads, and loads, and loads of extra fluids. People get a bit hung up on what you can and can't drink. The truth about hydration is it's very, very simple. All fluids count except alcohol. I'm really sorry if that's your tipple. Just chase that whiskey with water. << LAUGHTER >> You can drink tea. It will still help you hydrate systemically within the body, which will hopefully, at some point, help the vocal folds and the mucus and the vocal folds. Even coffee, shock, horror, it's still fluid, it still counts as systemic hydration in the body. There are some elements of diuretic, i.e. it makes you go to the toilet a little bit more. But the actual more recent research about coffee is that you would have to drink an absolute tonne of it for it to actually have any effect on your voice.

So people can relax about coffee, espresso, martinis, whatever you need before you hit record, it's fine. I mean, of course, the caffeine might exacerbate reflux or the dairy might have an impact on the thickness in your mouth, but you can still just have your coffee for hydration. So, look, just hydrate loads. Because if you're coughing or if you're ill and creating more mucus that's thick, you will need the extra fluids to help counterbalance that. The first thing is hydration.

Two easy things, hydrate and rest. But we all know that rest is not easy. Sometimes it's a privilege to say that rest is easy…

MARY: Mhmm.

NIC: …shout out to anybody with a job or caregiving responsibilities or small people in their lives…

MARY: Yes.

NIC: …but if you can rest, that can really help because your body needs time to process the illness. And the more you can rest, the quicker you'll get over it. If you have to, like, record straight away, like, there's no getting over it. There are some rehab exercises you can do, but I say this with caution because obviously, if you have no voice, sometimes there's nothing to do but rest. As in rest your voice as well. I always say to people, manage the expectations of the person who's expecting you to record.

So if you can at any, any possibility delay it, push it back, you know, give yourself an extra day, because you do want to be on point. And it's better waiting a day and be slightly after deadline and sounding great than, you know, showing up half-cocked, as it were.

So that aside, if you do need to record, there's a group of exercises called, um, well, shorthand. We call them SOVT or Semi Occluded Vocal Tract Exercises. And they're designed to help release tension in the body, in the vocal tracts, regulate the breath flow, the airflow, so that the vocal folds vibrate nice and easily. And when they're swollen a little bit, if you're ill, or covered in extra thick mucus, these exercises are really good at just waking them up, encouraging them to close in a more consistent and easy way, which makes speaking better. So those exercises, although they have a big fancy name, are very simple. It's just gliding up and down your range with a partially occluded mouth space. For example…

MARY: Yeah, I need an example.

NIC: …Yeah. Oh, it's fine. I've got loads. Uh, this one << LIP BUZZING OCTAVE >> gentle lip trill is a nice one.

MARY: Oh, I love those. Yes.

NIC: Those do elude some people, though, so please don't worry, they're not for everybody. And a couple of nice other examples are big puffy TH sounds. So if you stick your tongue out and let your cheeks get nice and puffy like a hamster or a chipmunk and just go as if you're. << VOCAL EXERCISE SOUND >> You've got your tongue right, like you're doing a TH sound, you know, like this. << VOCAL EXERCISE SOUND / LAUGHTER >> So imagine you're just saying this, but you never get past the TH. << VOCAL EXERCISE SOUND >>

MARY: That's a good one.

NIC: Okay. These. << VOCAL EXERCISE SOUND >> That creates exactly the same environment as the lip chill does in your sort of throat area. And then the other ones you can do are any puffy fricatives, really. So these sounds like a puffy V. << VOCAL EXERCISE SOUND >> You want to be aiming for a lovely feeling. Like the sound is all vibrating at the front of the mouth, rather than stuck at the back. So you don't want, like, << STRAINED VOCAL SOUND >>...

MARY: Yeah, that would hurt.

NIC: ...you just want to. << VOCAL EXERCISE SOUND >> Or a Z << VOCAL EXERCISE SOUND >> or because different accents and different languages have different sound inventories, a puffy worse sound, like you're, you know, you're doing a trumpet with your mouth. << TRUMPET VOCAL EXERCISE >>

MARY: I can totally picture you doing that. That's awesome.

NIC: What a great job I have. I'm glad there's no video. << LAUGHTER >> I've got my face on the Internet doing this far too much. So it's a real free treat to not have my face in. So those exercises, I won't go into the science of it, but basically they put your larynx in a really happy, easy, free place, and they make it really easy for the vocal folds to close.

So if you're ill, what you might find when you glide up and down. And you could try this if you want you might find a few gaps in that glide. So you might end up with something that sounds like M. << PATCHY VOCAL OCTAVE >> Right? Which is because there's swelling because you've been coughing a lot or there's a lot of mucus and mucus in the way. But the thing to do is just keep gently gliding and keep gently gliding because what you'll find is your body, your incredible brain and body go, oh, that's weird. We usually make a sign there what's going on, you know, and I mean, this is not obviously the science, like the, there's real proper neuron stuff happening here. But this is how my brain processes it. It like sends everybody to work fixing basically inside.

So if I'm used to going, << VOCAL EXERCISE >> and my body goes, << PATCHY VOCAL OCTAVE >> then my brain's going to go, whoa, we need to fix that. There's something wrong. And it starts helping you. And basically it encourages the vocal folds to close nicely and that will help you sound a little bit more healthy, vocally healthy, and get the mucus moving as well.

MARY: Oh, I like that because yeah, so I lost the voice on Sunday, didn't do anything without it. Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, got a little bit of it back. And I was doing some of this stuff yesterday because I thought, oh, like, what's taking it so long?

So I like your idea of like, the brain needs to make this happen. And so I think that's why I was like, ooh, today, yay. I have this interview. My voice is actually working for once all week. So this is nice.

NIC: Oh, that's good. The other things I would add to complement the sort of comfort whenever you're getting through this is, people often love steaming. So taking a, well I have this peculiar looking sort of ceramic inhaler with a tube that looks a little bit dodgy to be honest, but you fill it with hot water and you suck on it gently and it's a really nice soothing in the vocal tract.

And then the other thing you can do as well is the sort of. The newest modern day version of steaming is using a nebulizer, like a personal nebulizer. So a little handheld device. There's one internationally you can get that's called VocalMist. They use a 0.9% saline solution and you use that for 10 minutes. And what it does is it helps the mucus on the vocal folds and it reduces, here comes the science, it reduces phonation threshold pressure for up to one hour, i.e. and makes your vocal folds vibrate more easily for a period of time. So they're really good for supporting your health, your vocal wellness, if you're under the weather.

MARY: Wait, how does a nebulizer work? When you were describing it, I was thinking of those neti pots for your nasal sinuses. But is that similar?

NIC: Yeah. So it's like an electrical device. If you Google, like, handheld, handheld nebulizer, you'll see it's like a little white sort of rectangular cube, like box, << LAUGHTER >> I suppose, with a little spout on it. And you screw off the top, and you put a little vial of saline, note 0.9%. Very important. That's the same makeup as the saline in your body, as your mucus and stuff. And then you turn it on, and it mists, turns it into a mist.

MARY: Oh.

NIC: And the mist actually reaches your vocal folds, which, with steaming, they're not sure. The droplets of steam actually hit the vocal folds. These days, the droplets of steam are bigger than the drops of mist, so it soothes your throat when you steam, and it helps thin out the mucus in your mouth. It feels nice. It's like an internal hug. But they're not actually sure if it gets to the vocal folds anymore. Whereas the nebulizer, the science and the research today, it currently shows that the mist does reach your vocal folds and hydrates them from the outside in. So the mist is absorbed at a cellular level because it matches the chemical makeup of the mucus in there, and therefore it creates a friendlier environment for the vocal folds.

So they're really good if you can get your hands on one. In the interest of disclosure, if I've been out to a party and had a few too many whiskeys, sometimes the next morning, a little hit on the nebulizer really helps bring my voice back to life. << LAUGHTER >> I've been on the karaoke, doing a bit of a Bon Jovi.

MARY: Yeah, those are the hacks that most people are, like, looking for. What's the hack?

NIC: But, like, not pretend. We're all perfect. I have an episode of my podcast, actually, called how to keep your voice healthy during a festive party season. Nice. Because that's when I lost my voice, was when I went to, so I used to do a podcast called the Voiceover Social Podcast. And we have meetups, and I went to the Christmas do. I was already a bit under the weather because I host that party. It was like chat, chat, chat, chat, chat, like a wedding. And then my husband to stand up, and he was doing a gig in the evening, and me and a load of the people from that went to the standup gig. And were chat, chat, chat, laugh, laugh, laugh, chat, chat, chat. And I woke up the next day and I had no voice. I had no voice for 10 days and I lost almost a five figure amount of money in that week anyway. << LAUGHTER >> So that's why I have that podcast episode and that's why I have all the hacks.

MARY: Yes. Things we learn from our mistakes.

NIC: Exactly. Win, learn, never lose.

MARY: Yep. Okay, so let's get out of the sickness mindset, but into the, when we're just doing our regular thing. We're going to be recording a podcast episode. Vocal warmups,

NIC: my favourite.

MARY: Okay. Honesty on my end. Now, even as a professional myself, you know, I do voiceover stuff too. I worked in radio, I know all the things. But there are many days that I don't even do proper warmups and I feel like it has to do more with the podcasting side. Like if I do the voiceover work, I'm doing the warmups. But when it comes to podcasting, it's more slack, I think today we're, we're trying to record so many different things for our show that we're like, we're going to do one task and the next task and the next task and we don't do the warmups.

So not necessarily looking for that hack or shortcut, but what can we be doing to quickly warm up before we go and set up our microphone for our recordings?

NIC: Yes, I'm a big fan of, I suppose what, you know, they would call it the personal training world, compound exercises. So, you know, doing things that, that work multiple areas or doing a couple of things at once. So the very least I do, and I'm, I'm with you, Mary, because sometimes I drop the ball, or sometimes as a voiceover, something comes in and they need it back now, you know, and you have to jump in the booth. There's always time. There's always time to do something if I'm really honest with myself. But sometimes I take it for granted.

So what I love is, for example, a really, really simple one is some nice big, gentle kind of luxurious shoulder rolls and what I call a chewy hum. So you get a hum on the go that gets your lips nice and buzzy, but then you chew your lips roaring like you're eating something. So, again this is audio related, so I'll describe it as much as I can, but big shoulder rolls and then << HUMMING NOISE >>.

MARY: Like you're.

NIC: And again with the hum, you're aiming to feel a really nice buzz at the front of the face, not << STRAINED HUMMING NOISE >> at the back, it really helps to kind of close your eyes and imagine you're eating something dead yummy. << LAUGHTER >> I find if we're going to put an intention behind this, so you're. And then you can glide up and down your range. << HUMMING OCTAVE SOUND >> It's a really good one. Oh, that felt really nice, actually.

MARY: Yeah, that was great.

NIC: So what you're getting there is you're releasing the shoulders, which is great for nervous tension, great for when you're on a microphone, because we often. The shoulders do a lot of our communicative talking for us as well. They're up, they're down, you know, so given the shoulders, release is really nice for the voice. The humming gets the lips released. It also encourages the voice forward a little bit, if we're thinking a bit like, sort of image based with resonance. And it also gets the airflow regulated. And, um, it gets the vocal folds vibrating and woken up as well.

And then, of course, when you glide light up and down, you're increasing the variety. You're showing your voice the high notes and the low notes that it can reach. Because a lot of the time with podcasting things, sometimes people feel they don't sound as vocally varied as they thought they did when they listen back. So, they listen back and they go, oh god, I sound really monotone or dull or. I thought I sounded more excited about that or something. So a very easy glide like that just shows your body the range that it's capable of, so it gives you more options. So that's one really good exercise.

And then I'm also a big fan of exercises that help you go straight into either, you know, practising your intro or practising a few questions. So there's an exercise again, grateful there's no video right now. But if you stick your tongue out on your lower lip like this was called, slug tongue. That's what it was called when it was taught to me, as in my book. I think if you want a picture, stick your tongue out on your lower lip and you're letting your mouth kind of relax down. If you imagine your best sort of Macaulay Culkin shocked face.

MARY: Ah, yes.

NIC: And that your tongue out and then you're going to speak through days of the week. Well, the first thing you can do is speak days of the week, months of the year and count one to ten with your tongue out like this. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, like that. But what you can do with that one is take the intro of your podcast and say it with that slug tongue hanging out. So you're like, hi, thank you so much for joining me, welcome to the Voice Coach Podcast. My name's Nic Redman and today we're going to be talking about warm ups. Then you can take your tongue in and go, Hi, thank you so much for joining me today. Welcome to the Voice Coach Podcast. My name is Nic Redman and today we're going to be talking about warm ups.

So you're taught you're sort of practicing your intro to get your vocal energy going. You're sticking your tongue out, which sort of makes it harder. So that kind of wakes up the energy of the voice a little bit. You know, it wakes up those other articulators because when you put your tongue back in and you speak, it's like, oh, my god, this is so easy now. So that's a really good one for practicing with your intro or your questions. And, this is the final one. I mean, you'll have to just stop me at some point, Mary, because I could go on forever. << LAUGHTER >> Like, I literally wrote the book on this.

MARY: Yes.

NIC: If you put your finger, pointy finger, horizontally across your lips, as if you were doing a moustache mime, you know, in a sketch show,...

MARY: Yes

NIC: …but down, lower, in front, like between your lips, and then you're gonna go. << VOCAL EXERCISE SOUND >> And then you're going to glide up and down your range. << VOCAL EXERCISE OCTAVE SOUND >>

MARY: Yes.

NIC: Really nice for loosening the lips, getting the breath going, getting the vocal folds and the range going. But you can also do that one with your intro. So. << USING VOCAL EXERCISE SOUND >> Hi, thanks for joining me today, my name is Nic Redman and this is the Voice Coach Podcast << VOCAL EXERCISE SOUND ENDS, LAUGHTER >>

And then you can go straight into it with a really big vocal energy. Because some of my podcast clients say by the end of it, I'm really warmed up, but the start always feels a bit low energy and I always end up going back to re-record my intro because I feel like it doesn't match. Do you know how relaxed I was at the end? So this is a really good one because the last thing you want to be doing as a podcast is having to re-record and edit stuff. I mean, who can be bothered? << LAUGHTER >> So doing this, << SPEAKING IN VOCAL EXERCISE SOUND >> oh thank you so much, << SPEAKING IN VOCAL EXERCISE SOUND ENDS >> gets the energy going so you can go in with a bang.

MARY: I love this. And also because when, when I do this work too, with people that they're, like, really stuck on this, I need to sound professional thing. And I'm like, warm ups is not about professional, it's about being fun. It is about going outside of your comfort zone. And so we need to act silly. This is a silly thing…

NIC: Yeah.

MARY: …And I feel like a lot of podcasters don't realize that even when they are behind the mic, they don't have to put on that professional hat. You know, this isn't a broadcast radio, BBC, NPR, CBC-type show. This is something that is about you and your message and your voice.

And so when we connected over Instagram earlier this year, it was really about how as speakers, we're not able to control how someone reacts to our voice. So there's two parts of this, right? It's the, listeners has their own work to do to figure out what's bothering them, but also, you yourself as the speaker, you've got some work to do too. So, tell me more about this. Expand on it.

NIC: Yeah. So one of the things that I come across most with podcast host clients who come to me for help, both independent and in corporate space, is this idea that they're constantly focused on how they sound.

MARY: Mhm.

NIC: You know, podcasting comes through the filter of the edit, the production, the sound effects, the intro, how it looks, how I'm presenting it, what is my logo, what is my image, what is my tile for, like for Spotify and everything. And the same happens with the voice. And people are like, how should I sound? What do I sound like? I need to sound professional, I need to sound engaging. And they come to me and they go, I think I sound to X or I don't think I sound Y enough. And that's the problem for me is this self monitoring and editing of the voice when you're using it, rather than focusing on that connection with the listener and going, doesn't matter how I sound, it matters how they feel. And it's about sort of changing that focus, you know, so we did connect about that whole, I cannot control how someone hears my voice.

Your audience may or may not be aware of the intricacies of Irish politics, right? But I'm a Northern Irish person of a particular religion, right? Technically, people may hear my voice and get really angry because I sound how I sound. Right? If they're from a particular part of Northern Ireland, for example. Now, I cannot do anything about that, in the same way that you might have a listener who has a teacher that they didn't like that sounded like you once. So in their head they carry this vocal baggage with them, this auditory baggage that they kind of listen through a lens with.

So I always say to people, listen, who cares? Because you literally have no idea who's listening to you and you cannot do anything about it. All you can do is be as yourself on the microphone as possible. Or as whoever you need to be on the microphone as possible. And your listeners will find you. And the ones who you annoy will not stick around. And they're not your people anyway.

MARY: Yes, Exactly.

NIC: Because when we're worrying too much about how we sign, we forget about what we're saying. And that's the point. And funny enough, this links to warm ups. Mary. Because the reason I think warm ups are important is, yes, it's about saving time in the edit and in the record. So, A, you save money, B, you save sanity and your relationship with your editor. << LAUGHTER >> But also, if you warm up, then your voice is ready and you don't have to think about it. And you could focus more on the words. You can focus more on the impact that you're having and the connection you're trying to make with the listener.

So warming up is incredibly generous for your listener and also really good for your voice. Because you are saying, this is important to me. It's not about being professional. It's about caring about what you do and caring that the information that you're going to say is getting to the people in the way that it needs to, to make them feel in the way that you want them to.

MARY: I love that tie back into the vocal warmups because that was one of my thoughts. And I'm sure, like, a lot of people too, is like, when you said, who cares? Because I say that too. I'm like, who cares what other people think? It's about how you want and want to feel in this moment. But them who cares? Is easier said than done. So tying it back into that vocal warmup piece is so key. So thank you so much for making that connection and for sharing that.

NIC: Yeah. Because it's, warm ups help you get to know your voice and enjoy it. And you said fun. You said warm ups are about having fun. And I completely agree with that. And you know, if you've got a guest, do them with the guest, because you're darn right that guest is going to be nervous or excited. Like, do a few with them. Break the ice, record it, don't record it, doesn't matter. Sure, it's all content, let's be honest. But, like, it's really, really generous, important to do your warm up.

And I have to say, you're right, loving your voice and appreciating how you sound and not caring how other people think you sound is a big piece. And I don't say that lightly because I have done a lot of work with people on that. But remember that if you're. If you're making the step to do a podcast and put your voice out there, you clearly believe you have something to say that is bigger than your ego around your voice.

MARY: Actually, this new client of mine said the exact same thing where she's like, this is the biggest fear I have is sharing my voice. Because she used to be a journalist, it was more about writing, and she, now that she's got her podcast out there, she's just like, oh, oh, I'm so embarrassed with my voice. So, what would you say to someone like that who's still embarrassed about their voice?

NIC: I would say to them, remember what a privilege it is to have a voice, both literally and figuratively. I have worked with many people who have a big voice baggage for very legitimate reasons. You know, whether it's bosses, or family members, or social circles who have told them their voice is not valid or that they are not worthy of being heard. But we have to take responsibility for the fact that we have a voice in the first place.

So we have to step up to that fear and go, it's incredible that I have a platform, and it's incredible and a privilege that I have a voice to start with. So you just have to kind of give yourself a shake, do the silly warm ups, listen to yourself over, and over, and over again. And the more you listen, the more you'll get used to yourself and your sound and the more you'll hear the beauty in it.

And just remember how amazing is it the only thing we have in podcasting that is unique. The only thing. I'm sorry if you think your idea for podcasts is the most unique thing in the world…

MARY: No.

NIC: …It is not. It will have been done before. The only unique USP you have in podcasting is your voice. And that's the truth.

MARY: Yeah, that's right. I say that a lot because your voice is like a thumbprint. Everyone's is unique. Like, I sound similar to my older sister, sure, but it is still me. The way I say something, the tone, the words I use, it is still you. And I love that you bring that to the table as well.

So you've been working in the podcasting space. You have your own show too. What have you seen that's changed or shifted at all in regards to voice in the podcasting scene?

NIC: Thankfully, we're seeing a lot more diversity than we were.

MARY: Yeah.

NIC: There's still a lot of work to be done with giving the underrepresented shows more space and more possibility to grow, I think. But there's definitely more diversity out there, which is really exciting. And luckily, a lot more women…

MARY: Mhmm.

NIC: …which is exciting. As someone who identifies very much as female, this is a really hard thing to be objective about. I say that slowly because I always get subjective and objective confused. And I have to really say it really slowly for my brain to. So, because I am such a podcast nerd, I obviously listen to loads of podcasts, but I also have my preferences. So, I feel like what I think is exciting in podcasting is probably because of the podcasts that I listen to.

<< LAUGHTER >>

MARY: That's right.

NIC: But I just love that it's still an open forum. If you have a phone and access to the Internet, you can do a podcast in theory. So I just love the fact that it's still. I know there's a bit more, you know, chitter chatter about things becoming more commercial and it losing some of its grassroots charm, but the truth of it is, anybody can still do it, which is pretty cool.

MARY: Yeah. Like you were saying, you have your own show, you have your own podcasting journey. And I've learned quite a lot from your over 80 episodes of your, the Voice Coach Podcast. They're great because they're. They're short and to the point. But what is your. What's been your biggest challenge of making the show for yourself?

NIC: Oh, I mean, for me, it was starting as a weekly show and having to keep it up. So when I started that, the person who was producing, I had a team helping me with it. I was like, I'm going all in. And she was like, do weekly for a year and then see how you feel. So I did weekly for, yeah, a year, which was intense.

MARY: Oh, yeah.

NIC: I mean, even with somebody, you know, a decade's worth of experience and entire degrees in my subject, like, I, it was still like, okay, come on, I. Stay focused, stay strategized. Plan the next 10 episodes. Where are we going with this? What's happening? What's it linking to? What am I launching next? What are my people getting out of this? You know?

So it was keeping it focused and within, like, in line with the strategy and not just going, oh, god, I need an episode this week. I'll talk about hydration. Okay, so definitely keeping the consistency and the quality up, I think, was hard. And for me, when I first started, this was interesting, but I, and I think I reflected more on this when I wrote my book. When I first started the podcast, I think if I'm honest, I was doing it, it might, this is a bit weird, but I don't know if it's deep or whatever, but I felt like I was trying to prove things to my peers rather than serve my audience in a way. In the sense that I felt like I had to show all my academic research, all the links, all the facts, you know, make sure everyone knows I've got a master's degree in Vocal Pedagogy. I'm very well read, da da da. I'm very good. And I know this because of this book, and I know this because of this recent article. And I know this because of. I was like, my listeners don't care about that. They just want the fucking exercise, I feel like.

So as the show progresses towards, you know, the end of the year of weekly, I suddenly realise, obviously some of my peers listen and that's incredible and they're very complimentary about it. I love that. But it's for my clients. The podcast is for my clients. So I think keeping myself on track and remembering that I don't have to prove myself and my academic standing within this world was an interesting journey and I could just be myself and just do the work that I love doing for the people that I love doing it for was an interesting one.

And when I listened to the first one versus, you know, episode 80, whatever, I think you can really tell the difference in that, both my delivery and you know, at the start I was like, word for word scripting it and then reading it. I'm very good at reading something…

MARY: Right, exactly, yes.

NIC: …as if I'm not reading something because that's being a voiceover,...

MARY: That’s right.

NIC: …so nobody could tell. But towards the end it was much more bullet points. << LAUGHTER >> I wasn't scripting it anymore. So that was an interesting challenge.

MARY: I love that mindset shift. I went through that too, where when I started the show and even my business in podcasting, because I worked in radio for 20 years, was downsized in 2018. And then I thought, maybe I'll try this podcasting thing. Is this a thing? And I went into it thinking, oh, I need to show that I have the experience. I know what I'm doing. I've, you know, I did this, I did that, and I didn't have the academics behind it.

And it feels like that societal hierarchy of if you have a university degree, you are better, you know, people will like you more or whatnot. And I didn't. I went to a two year radio program 20 years ago, like, that, that all gets into your head. And I did the same thing. I scripted a Lot. And sometimes I still do, depending on how busy I am and stuff. Because I am a voiceover artist, I can do that. But yeah, I think when you get to that point of, I'm serving my listeners for my clients, for my people. Yeah, they don't care. It's back to that. Who cares, part.

NIC: Yeah. And it's funny, you know, one of the things that people talk most about with my podcast is at the time I had a water bottle that was really squeaky when you took the lid off. And people still come up to me and go, and every time I listen to your podcast, when you take a drink, I take a drink, << LAUGHTER >> you know, like, because I was like, you know, um, I can't be bothered editing this squeak. So every time I need to take a drink of water, I'm going to take a drink of water. We do it together. It's collective, you know, it's like a collective hydration experience. And people always come up to me and go, I've got a squeaky bottle. Or like, you know, it's like Pavlov's dog. Every time they hear a squeak noise, they have to take a drink. << LAUGHTER >> So it's those imperfections that I think can also become the charm.

MARY: Oh, I love that. Yeah. Because it's, it's an audio medium, so those squeaks work so well. So in that spirit and me still losing my voice, we're going to take a drink, everybody.

NIC: Let's do it. Cheers. Or as we say in Ireland, sláinte.

<< DRINKING NOISE >>

MARY: Yeah, so helpful. So, so helpful. I, I cannot wait for your show to come back because you're right, I do want just the little tips and the little tricks. So what, what are your podcasting plans?

NIC: Oh, god, I have been mulling it over for far too long. I'm still mulling. I'm trying to decide whether I want to start a brand new show or whether I want to start, you know, do a limited series under the same banner as the Voice Coach Podcast. I'm not sure. I need to talk to some friends, some podcast friends and see what they think is the best thing to do. << LAUGHTER >> But I have an idea because I'm working a lot more in corporate at the moment.

MARY: Mhm.

NIC: So, helping the people who host corporate podcasts to, um, be their best selves on the microphone and show up vocally as the experts and thought leaders that they want to be within their industry. So that's a really empowering, exciting side of the business that I'm moving into. So I'm wondering whether it might be themed or in that I'm not sure.

MARY: Yes.

NIC: Still mulling it over. Yeah.

MARY: It's always going to be like what we were saying, who your listener is. What is that person wanting? Yeah.

NIC: Yeah. Maybe they just want more tips. Mary, Mary, this is good market research for me. << LAUGHTER >> Just need to get off my arse and onto the microphone and get the voice coach podcast going again.

MARY: Well, like you said, you wrote the book on it, so you can talk about this endlessly. And I'm sure that it will be so, uh, valuable because I know the podcast as it is right now, now, it has been so valuable for me, so.

NIC: Oh, thank you. That's so good to know.

MARY: Yeah. Nic thank you so much for your time and your unofficial medical glasses off diagnosis with my voice. << LAUGHTER >>

NIC: Yes. Please see a medical professional and, uh, if not responsible for any pathologies, that maybe. There's my disclaimer.

MARY: Exactly.

NIC: Do seek professional help.

MARY: Yes.

NIC: If your voice changes for more than two weeks.

<< LAUGHTER / MUSIC IN >>

MARY: This has been so lovely. Thank you so much.

NIC: Thank you.

MARY: Oh, weren't those tips great? Yeah, the slug tongue she mentioned earlier, << VOCAL EXERCISE SLUG TONGUE >> like, those tongue twisters get easier after the slug tongue. << LAUGHTER >> It’s a great one to go hand in hand with the lion's roar that I tend to do. I do the trills and the lion's roar. And this is how you do a lion's roar. It has to do with the tongue and all the muscles in your mouth and your jaw. And so you stick the tip of your tongue behind the bottom front teeth. Okay, so the tip of the tongue is at the bottom of your front teeth. You're going to try and stick your tongue out as far as you can and open up your mouth wide like a lion. But that tip of your tongue is still stuck to the back of your lower teeth. Okay. And then you're just going to exhale with a wide mouth and you go. << VOCAL EXERCISE SIGH SOUND >> You're going to make like a lion's roar face, like my eyes, close, my cheeks, wrinkle all of it. Because you're really stretching out the back of your throat as well when you do that. And I find it goes really hand in hand with that slug tongue.

Because then you're also working your tongue or trying to relax your tongue, and then the trills is trying to relax your lips. << LIP BUZZING OCTAVE SOUND >> That is a tough one. But if you can relax your lips, that's what that does.

So many great tips from Nic. And I'll be sure to also link her book in the show notes because she says it's got some good pictures if you're a visual aspect person so you can go that way and read her book and look at her pictures. But also in the show notes, I will link to her podcast because like I said, I do listen to her show. She's got some great short episodes with vocal tricks and tips. So get more vocal warm ups through Nic and her podcast. You'll love it.

All right, and also just a quick reminder, if you are still listening to this episode before November 1st, or at least the end of the day on November 1st, I still have my giveaway going for a ticket for you to join me at the Podcasting For Business Conference that's happening November 13th through 15th. But on the 14th, right in the middle of it, I'll be on a panel all about using your voice. It's called Your Voice, Using It, Shaping It And Protecting It. And I would love for you to join me at that conference. I'm giving away a free ticket to it. And this is how you enter.

What you need to do between now when this episode is published to, uh, the end of the day on November 1st, all you need to do is leave me a voice note from my website because I want you to share your voice. So go to VisibleVoicePodcast.com There's a purple button there that says send voice mail. Click on that and I want you to leave a 90 second voice note from your device. Quickly state your name, where you're calling from, Hello, Mary Chan, long time listener, first time caller. And two, say and complete the following sentence stems, The first time someone said something about my voice, it made me feel, dot, dot, dot, and then end with today, what I love about my voice is, dot, dot, dot. Okay? I say leave a 90 second voice note, but if it cuts you off, feel free to continue on the next one. It's fine, it's fine because I just want you to share your voice. I would love to hear what someone said to you the first time. You were like, oh, my voice. Okay, maybe I won't do that anymore. It's happened to a lot of people, so I just want to hear it. And I would love to hear how you transitioned, through that to today.

And then I will draw from all the entries for that free ticket to the podcasting for business conference. Again, it's happening on November 13th through 15th, and it is hosted by Megan Dougherty of One Stone Creative. She was a guest on this podcast. So if you haven't listened to that one yet, that one's just fun because she talks all about research and reports, it's episode number 70. Make sure you get on that because, ooh, actually the 2024 report because I interviewed her, for that episode last year, 2023. But the new 2024 report is coming out this same week. If you are listening to when this podcast first came out at the end of October. So, lots of podcasting reports and information that I'm gonna be delving into. So if you're not into the stats and all that stuff, don't worry, leave it with me. << LAUGHTER >> So, yeah, good luck with winning those tickets with me. Just send me your voice note from my website, VisibleVoicePodcast.com.

On the next episode. I want to explore what it means to do less. There's so much overwhelm in the world these days. We're really, really busy in the world of podcasting in your own work, and then there's also your personal life and everything in between. And I've noticed when just talking to podcasters, to other people, just within my networking, creating a business and my friends and family, there is a lot happening and we are all trying to streamline and just do less. What does it mean if we did less and this specifically for a podcast? How do you do less around your show, yet still create episodes that you love? We're going to explore this, the next time, so join me then.

<< MUSIC ENDS >>

<< OUTRO - SHOW CLOSE // MUSIC IN - GHOSTHOOD FEATURING SARA AZRIEL “LET’S GO” BEGINS >>

MARY: Thank you so much for listening to the Podcaster's Guide to a Visible Voice. If you enjoyed this episode, I'd love it if you share it with a podcasting friend. And to reveal more voicing and podcasting tips, click on over to VisibleVoicePodcast.com. Until next time.

<< WOMAN SINGS: Let’s go >>

<< OUTRO MUSIC ENDS >>

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