VO BOSS

Delve into year-end evaluations and developing a robust plan for next year's voiceover success. THE BOSSES share expert advice on setting clear objectives, utilizing effective marketing techniques, and maintaining enthusiasm in the unpredictable realm of freelance work. They give invaluable advice on maintaining passion, setting precise goals, and implementing effective marketing strategies. THE BOSSES also share strategies for balancing financial and time investments to align emotional satisfaction with professional objectives.

00:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
Hey bosses, real Boss, Tom Dheere and myself have a very special deal for you guys. Tom, tell them what it is.

00:08 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
All right, nne. If you use the promo code BOSSVOSS that's B-O-S-S as in V-O-BOSS and V-O-S as in V-O-STRATEGIST, and the number 24, so that's BOSSVOS24, you get 10% off my 30-minute check-in, my one-hour strategy session and my one-hour diagnostic.

00:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
And you'll get 10% off all coaching packages and demos on the Anne Ganguzza website. So, guys, black Friday starts now and runs till the end of the year. So everybody, get yourselves on that site and get yourself a discount. BOSS, VOS, BOSS, VOS 24.

00:43 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
BOSS, VOS 24. Boss. VOS, BOSS, VOS, 24. BOSS, VOS, 24.

00:47 - Intro (Announcement)
It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.

01:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Real Boss Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and of course, I am here with the one and only amazing Mr Tom Dheere.

01:18 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Hello Anne, hello bosses.

01:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
Hi Tom Dheere. Hi Tom, it's getting close to the end of the year, getting cold, getting ready for the holidays. At the end of the year, I always try to kind of step back and take a look at how did my year go, and I know that this is what you do. This is kind of like this is like your thing as the VO strategist. So I'd love to hear how you evaluate your year, because I want some tips actually, and I'm sure the bosses out there can always use some good end of year tips for evaluating how your business is going.

01:57 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
And I'll be happy to share those. I do the feels. You know. There's the emotional part of it. Just how did I feel about the year? Did I feel energized? Did I feel motivated? Did I feel satisfied? The emotional part of it Just how did I feel about the year? Did I feel energized? Did I feel motivated? Did I feel satisfied with the art of it? Was I able to express myself in the ways that I wanted or needed to express myself as both a voiceover artist, but also as a human being, Because there's a psychological aspect to what we do, Everybody has a different reason for why they want to be a voice actor.

02:26
You know, like Tom Dheere loves to tell stories. I love to talk, I'm a big talker, I'm a fast talker, but I just love telling stories. I love going on journeys and guiding people through journeys. And it's funny because ever since I did my very first paid voiceover in 1996, I've always had the question you know, how'd I do as an artist? You know, and every year the answer is a little bit better because I learn a little bit more.

02:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
I love how you evaluated, first of all, the why. Right, because I think we always need to step back and say remember your why. Why are we doing it in the first place? Right, because if it gets to the point where it's stressing you out too much or you're I'm like my corporate job did that.

03:04
So I mean honestly like one of the reasons why I did this was to go into business for myself was because I found joy in running a business. I found joy in being creative and telling stories, such as yourself. And I love how you opened with that, because when I asked you, I was thinking, gosh, you're going to bring out your spreadsheet and you're going to be like all right, the business analyst is here and we're going to talk about how our year went, which I'm sure you're going to talk about anyways. But I love how you opened it with what is your why and how did you feel about it? Because I think you have to have the feels first right in order to want to continue and have the passion and the drive to keep moving forward.

03:41 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Well, if there's no feels, then why are you doing it? And if you're doing it just for a paycheck, voiceover is the worst way to try to make money. It's so hard.

03:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
It's so hard. Wait, I feel like on the count of three, Tom, it's so hard.

03:59 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
And it takes forever to find out if you can make money and how long it's going to take you to make money, that's going to feel like it validates you at all, and if you wanted to get to part-time or if you want it to be something that's going to cover all your expenses and help save for retirement. Like you know, if there's a hundred jobs out there, there's 99 out there that are better to make money and have a paycheck than this one. So if you are doing this, it better have the feels right Now.

04:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
why do you say that, though I do want to ask you why do you say that there's a hundred jobs better at making the money? Why do we say that and the two of us are like oh my God, it's hard, but give a little more background to that, to that. Why?

04:40 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
I'm talking in the context of something that gives you personal fulfillment. Now, in all fairness, if your passion is photography and you want to be a photographer, the principle is the same You're a freelancer. You have to figure out how to make your own work, how to market yourself, how to brand yourself, how to manage your finances. So the principles are all the same. So the self-employed things like voiceover or photography I want to be a singer, dancer, actor, model, musician, freelance graphic artist, I want to open my own yoga business or whatever. But for everything else banking, legal healthcare and healthcare and all of these things can be emotionally and psychologically rewarding, but those tend to be far more stable forms of income, you know. So my point is is that if you're going to get into something as difficult to pursue like photography or voiceover or being a musician, if it doesn't have the feels, then why are you doing it? You're just some kind of masochist who just likes to make your life as difficult as humanly possible, you know.

05:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
I read an interesting blog about when you're in freelance and you're doing stuff like we're voice actors. I mean, it's all about certainty. Right, we've given up our certainty, because if we've worked for people in the corporate world like I did, I mean I was certain I was getting that paycheck every two weeks, I mean as long as I was employed. This. Now you've entered into the era, or into a vortex, of uncertainty, and that is, I think, where Tom and I are like it's hard, it's hard and yeah. So if it doesn't give you the feels, then yeah, you have to make a lot of sacrifices for that.

06:15 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Voiceover the vortex of uncertainty, the vortex of uncertainty.

06:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
I'll tell you. Not that we don't love it. I mean, gosh, we've both been in this over 15 years, right, tim? So it's like, really, I mean I would not have stayed with it. I don't think I could ever work for someone again, unless it's like an in-out get paid for the job and we're done.

06:33 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Oh no, I can't work for anybody again.

06:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
All my jobs? Yeah, I enjoy my, and the first step is to assess the feels right. So do we still have the same feeling about voiceover. Do we still find the same joy in it as we did when we started? Okay, all right, that's good, that's step number one. Then what, tom?

07:05 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Well then, it's time to break that down, because everybody has dreams in voiceover and people like Ann Ganguza, who is a masterful genre coach and demo producer.

07:09
That's part of the journey of helping to make your dreams come true. Get quality training, get a demo that you can use as a marketing tool to get the casting opportunities that you want to help make your dreams come true. But I tell all my students, vague goals will get you vague results. Specific goals will get you specific results. Yes, I also say that vague efforts will get you vague results. Specific goals will get you specific results. Yes, I also say that vague efforts will get you vague results. Specific efforts will get you specific results. So, when it comes to analyzing your business and reconciling the feels with what do I need to do and be and have to fulfill me? Narrate cartoons or video games or military history, audio books or college textbooks or whatever it is that blows your hair back to get the feels that you desire? You need to be able to put in the time and money and energy and effort on a business and marketing sense to be able to get the casting opportunities that you want so you can get the feels right.

08:00
Yes, absolutely, and this is why, I tell my students the more specific you are about what you want, the better of a chance you're going to have to get what you want, and your goals can change from year to year.

08:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
So then, is this the step that's next in terms of like figuring out goals that you want for the next year, or are we still in the assessment phase of how, this year, went.

08:21 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
It directly flows into the goals that you want, because your goals also are going to change from year to year. So like, for example, this is 2024. One of my main voiceover goals was to book political voiceover work. I'm doing my research and taking classes and listening to experts in the area. I knew this was going to be a big opportunity to be a political voice actor for a lot of people.

08:46
My worry was that my sound, which is not the vote for this person and if you don't, the other one will eat your children. Like, I can't do that. My vocal folds are just not thick enough to be able to pull off that, or at least I just sound like I'm trying too hard. So it's like is there a place for me with my personality, my skill sets, the thickness of my vocal folds, to be able to get voiceover work? So I set a number for myself of how many political jobs I wanted to do this year and what are the things I need to do to be able to achieve those goals. So training yes, check. Little JMC, little Brandon Perry Okay, check. Demo yes, got the spots. Also added and embellished the demo with previous political work that I'd done in 2022 and 2023, because that's when I decided I wanted to give this a shot. And then marketing acumen Get representation that specializes in booking political voiceover work, going on casting sites and keeping an eye out for political work, as well as optimizing my profile to feed the algorithms to get political voiceover work. And use direct marketing strategies to be able to develop relationships with production companies that specialize in political work and develop relationships with them and get work.

10:05
And I did all three of those things and, to a greater or lesser extent, it worked in all three of those ways. So I did hit the number of political spots that I wanted to book this year. How do I know that? Well, I can count, but how does one keep track of this stuff? So I use my cash flow sheet, which is a free download at vo strategistcom, and it tracks every penny that goes into my voiceover business and every penny that goes out of my voiceover business.

10:34
So obviously I track all of the voiceover work that I did, what kind of genre it was, how much money I made, who did I work with, how I got the booking this is where being able to look back on your year and figuring out how you did, because having the feels, like I said, is critical. It's the most important thing. But you need to find out how much money did you spend this year? Where did you put your money Training, demo production, marketing, other things? Where did you put your time and energy? Cold calling versus auditioning, versus blogging, versus social media, versus workshops, versus conferences, versus local events versus national events? And how did all of that stuff pan out? What efforts did you put into 2024 that turned into what you want, which is the voiceover bookings, to get you the feels, to get that fulfillment of yes, I am realizing myself as a voice actor.

11:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
And that free downloadable has all of those aspects on there, like social media, like this is how you got the job social, oh wow, that's fabulous.

11:38 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Yeah, so I'll talk everybody through. It is that the first column just has a little code. It's VO for voiceover, VOS for VO strategist. Because I track all my coaching stuff on there too, and then it's either the expense like you know, paperclips or whatever I bought, or a class that I took, or whatever that I attended, or whatever the voiceover is, and then I so I track what the voiceover is Do you buy paperclips, Tom?

12:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
I haven't bought paperclips in years.

12:02 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
I have so many paperclips from you know my analog days that I'll never need to buy another paperclip again, so maybe that wasn't the best example.

12:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
I know, no, but I love it. I just was thinking about it. God, do we use paperclips anymore? Anyway, sorry.

12:16 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Barely, barely. I barely use paperclips. I use my stapler all the time, but I don't use my paperclip anymore.

12:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
Right, I do too. I still use my stapler.

12:23 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Yeah.

12:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
Okay, Staples.

12:25 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Anyway, at Staples, yes, one of my favorite places. It's like Disneyland for me that and the container store, if you've ever been to a container store.

12:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
Oh, yes, I love the container store.

12:35 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Love those.

12:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
There's one not far from me Stupidly expensive containers, but boy do I love them. But boy do I love them. They're worth every penny.

12:49 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
I just love walking around in there. They are, it's like Willy Wonka Good stuff Anyway. Oh, my mileage. I tracked my tolls, you know, because I drove from Manhattan to Virginia, specifically, and back. I tracked all the tolls in and out of the Lincoln Tunnel across the Delaware Bridge.

13:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
Can I tell you, please Can?

13:05
I tell you, I tracked my $6 butter that I bought from the bar so that I could put it on my Royal Cousin bagel Because I'm a girl who loves butter on her bagels. And so it was like late at night and I went to the bar and I said can I buy some butter? And he's like butter. And I said, well, I have a bagel. I said, have you ever had a bagel from New Jersey? And he's like okay, and the first he comes back with two or three. Like I'm like no, no, no, no, that's not going to work for me.

13:35
He's just two or three little pats of that container, like I need like two or three per like square inch of a bagel for that. And ultimately he says I'm going to have to charge you and I said, okay, sure, so how much is that going to cost me? He goes and I'm like I thought about it it was late at night and I really wanted that bagel and I said, all right, put it on my tab. So that's been tracked.

13:56 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Just wanted to clear the air on that. Just wanted to clear the air of that $6 butter. It's a tax deduction because it's a food expense at a professional event.

14:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
Thank you, roy. Thank you, roy for my bagel.

14:10 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
I allowed myself to eat a bagel. This time. I had half a pumpernickel myself when I was down there I ate an entire bagel.

14:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
I might have eaten one and a half, tom, because you know.

14:16 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
I gotta have a lot of butter. Yeah well, I understand you had to make it worth the $6 that you put out.

14:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
Thank you, Uncle.

14:21 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Roy. Thank you, roy. I track all the traveling expenses and obviously, every meal, I amount of money that I made. I enter the invoice that I generated for every voiceover that I did, the form of payment check, direct deposit, paypal, credit card, wise, formerly known as TransferWise. Oh, I also currency, because I get a lot of European clients, so I get paid in euros as well as dollars and British pounds.

14:51
But this is how to look at your voiceover business marketing-wise is that I have a section which I either type in AB for audition booking or DB for direct booking, because I like to know did I get this through a one-to-one audition I auditioned once I booked one gig or is it a regular client or a legacy client that just said oh Tom, here's another explainer video and you don't have to do an audition? So this year, 2024, my direct bookings were roughly 80% of my voiceover work and the audition one-to-one auditions were roughly 20% of my voiceover work. And the question is you get these numbers, but what do they mean? What that means for me, tom Dheere, is that I have legacy clients dating back to 1997 that I don't audition for anymore. So that's clearly an accumulation of building regular clients over an extremely long period of time.

15:45
And that's great, but I also need to know how relevant I am in the voiceover industry, because if you book an audition this year. That means that your voice, your sound, your performance is in demand and you're keeping up with casting trends.

15:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
Love that and 20% is pretty good.

16:02 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
The other thing I do is I track the portal. How did I get this casting opportunity? The three portals in the voiceover industry are representation, online casting sites, self-marketing strategies. So, looking at my spreadsheet, so we're not quite at the end of the year yet, but we're pretty close. Right now it's only 8% of my work came through representation, 42% came through online casting. That's both free sites and pay-to-play sites. 26% came through direct marketing, 23% came through indirect marketing.

16:33
So what do those numbers mean? Well, it means a couple of things. One, you line up the genres of voiceover that you want to do with the portals that you need to use to get them. So, for example, agents don't cast audiobooks or explainers. So if I did a lot of audiobook work this year, that means I probably got it through ACX or Findaway, voices or Ahab or any of the other audiobook-centric casting sites. Or and this also happens a lot is that you develop direct relationships with audiobook production companies Hachette, podium Publishing, Oasis, a whole bunch of other places and so I can look and go oh okay, well, I got a lot of work through that too. So it's reconciling the genre of voiceover, the type of bookings that I got, with how I got them. So, for example, political so far has been my best genre. 23.9% of my voiceover revenue was political. Second best was e-learning. I do a ton of e-learning. I've had clients dating back to the 90s, so that makes sense.

17:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
Yes, does your spreadsheet calculate the percentage? Do you have like formulas built into that spreadsheet? That's awesome.

17:41
I do, I'm going to just ask, because I know there's a lot of bosses out there thinking this oh good Lord, it's a spreadsheet, and their eyes are already like rolling back in their heads because it's like overwhelming. Right, but tell me, how much time does it take for them to account for this? Because, if you think about it, this is nothing more than an expense report, really, and a little bit more right If you were to travel for your job, right? And so I feel like you always have to fill out an expense report in order to get paid for it. So this is kind of like your expense report slash income statement, inflow, outflow yeah, report for your business. And so how long should you expect to sit down at the end of a day, at the end of a week, and fill that out?

18:20 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
A couple minutes.

18:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
Okay. So see that, guys. It's only a couple of minutes, yeah it's only a couple of minutes.

18:27
And so even as overwhelming, like Tom is coming up with all these numbers and these statistics from his own job and his own year, but yet he's only spent a few minutes a day jotting this stuff down, and I think it's just something like muscle memory. As much as you go and practice character development or practice your scripts, it is time invested that you have to put into your studio, and I just want to say that. I think I want to clarify, tom, that there's a number of people that get into this industry because they find joy in reading books or they find joy in creating characters. However, not everybody finds joy in the work that's required, right, to actually create and delve in deeper to that character or delve in deeper to growing a business. As much joy as these things bring you, there is work involved and I just want to acknowledge and, tom, we've said it before multiple times it's hard, right. I mean not every single aspect of your business is going to be like, I mean, until you're probably established right, eight hours in the booth doing joyful, light character work.

19:27
If that's what you want to do, there is the other work that it takes to get you to that place to feel joyful, as you were explaining right so you can derive the feels right.

19:38
And so this assessment, this end of your assessment, can give you such valuable insight into where you've gone and where you want to go in the future and how much time you're going to have to dedicate to different aspects of it. And so it's worth the couple of minutes and I say that it's worth a couple of minutes, like to my students that are in performance. I say it's worth a couple of minutes to do that copy analysis, to do that character development, to do that scene writing, because in the end, that's what's going to pay off and get you the gig. Because in the end, that's what's going to pay off and get you the gig. Because ultimately, you can go in and create characters all you want, but until you make a profit doing that right, that's just all you're doing is going in your studio and creating characters, and if it's something that needs to pay the bills, that may not happen. Until you put in a little more work, that may not be as pleasant.

20:25 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Right. I mean I've been developing this spreadsheet for 20 years, and I have been developing this spreadsheet for 20 years and I have all sorts of little formulas and things in there, yeah.

20:34 - Intro (Announcement)
You get the benefit and you can have it for free.

20:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
Tom, is this for free? Oh my God, for free. That's so awesome, right? You don't have to put the work in that Tom. You're getting the benefit of Tom. This is why we call him the VO strategist, right? And if you need help, there he is, tom. I'm sure people can come see you and work with you, that you can help streamline this so that it becomes something that isn't so tedious or isn't something that you're questioning Well, why am I not booking work, or why is this not happening in my business? So, if you need an accountability partner and I'll tell you what I'm the first person to say that in my business, I will invest in something that will keep me on track, something that will keep me going. I have a business coach I invest in on a monthly basis, an accountability partner. Tom is like one of the best out there and he's done all this work for you. Sorry, I'm just. I'm gushing right now, tom.

21:27
But, bosses that know me like I don't bullshit sorry, I just don't I. But bosses that know me like I don't—bullshit sorry, I just don't. I'm honest to probably a fault, but I would not talk about Tom, nor would I have Tom on my podcast so many times if I didn't believe in what he's doing and I didn't believe that you're going to gain such value. And again, this won't be an month for Peloton so that I can get on that bike and be inspired and motivated by the Peloton instructor.

21:57
This is kind of no different right. It's worth it to me because the benefits, right that I get health-wise and joy-wise from getting on the bike and exercising and being inspired and motivated are very well worth the investment. And being inspired and motivated are very well worth the investment. And so, if this is something that you are not going to be disciplined enough to do, I believe that it's well worth your investment to really start seeing where your business has gone so that you can understand where to take it in the future right and guide it towards success. I stepped down from my podium.

22:29 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Thank you, that was very kind of you. Thank you for all that.

22:32 - Intro (Announcement)
I have an accountability too. I stepped down from my podium, thank you.

22:35 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
That was very kind of you. Thank you for all that I have an accountability too. I'm being truthful, I appreciate that, and I have a business coach too, and I have people in my village that hold me accountable because I have my days of self-doubt and self-loathing and laziness and stuff, and I have people that keep me on track.

22:48
But I, with my mentorship program, you're basically paying for an accountability and a business coach all in one, because folks I know bosses this stuff is hard. It's challenging on a logistical, financial, emotional, spiritual, psychological level and I am here for you. But you're grownups. You need to be able to invest in yourself and be consistent, be kind to yourself when you need to be kind, be firm to yourself when you need to be firm, and I frankly, don't care if you don't like the grownup stuff. I don't care, because the voiceover industry doesn't care either. You want to do this for money. You want to make all your goofy voices in the booth and play all day. Great, you got to put in a ton of work, a ton of work, and it never gets any easier. It just turns into different kinds of hard.

23:38
Anne has been doing this for a long time. Right, she has her own challenges, internal and external, that are just different from the ones that bosses who are earlier in their journey have. Same thing with me. But if you really want to know who you are, what your business is, what your relationship to the voiceover industry is, beyond just your talent, and how great coaches like Ann can help you realize your talent. You need to hunker down and use my damn spreadsheet and analyze your business and take a hard look, hunker down, Hunker down and use the spreadsheet. I'm wearing flannel today for you podcasters, so I'm feeling very, very very rural, use the damn spreadsheet.

24:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
Oh my God, I feel like hunker down and Use the damn spreadsheet. Oh my God, I feel like hug her down and use the damn spreadsheet. See, like even Tom and I have fun with character development. So I mean honestly like it just makes sense.

24:26
And I'll be completely honest with you, we run our businesses for a purpose and we're doing this for a purpose, right? And I want to support the joy that I have in doing what I do and, yeah, there are days when, gosh, it's painful. But I also outsource some of this stuff as well to an accountant, and I've said that multiple times. I have an accountant who takes care of all my inflows and outflows and categorizations and that's a big help right then, and there she doesn't track my auditions or how I got the job, but I mean honestly, like that's just a couple of extra steps. Now there's another piece of software out there there's I think it's voice overview that does that as well. Voice overview with Danny States. Is that correct, right?

25:07
They have kind of a CRM and people will say, well, can I do this? Can I track this with my CRM? Yeah, you probably can, right? I mean, you won't have the benefit of the mentor, a monthly kind of meeting with Tom, and even if you're using voice overview, I don't think there's like a mentorship built into that. But you know, it depends on what level you need and what level you're requiring.

25:27
The thing that I like about your spreadsheet, tom, is that it's local, right. I'm very leery of a database that I'm necessarily putting confidential information in, like what I'm getting paid per job, unless I know that that system has like security that nobody's going to hack in and like steal my contacts. That goes for a CRM system too, right, I want to make sure that that is secured and that there's no possibility that somebody is going to go in and get financial data on me that maybe I didn't warrant anybody taking or seeing, or my client base. And so I like yours, because yours is local. You can just download it and you copy it to your computer and there it is and that's as secure as your computer is, and then you can meet with your mentor right On a monthly basis, weekly basis, however, that works and that, to me, I feel good about and I'm leery about CRM software anyway, just because a lot of CRM software doesn't do exactly what I want it to do and people are always asking me what CRM to use.

26:26
I use multiple CRMs depending on what I need. I'm not necessarily putting in financial data. I have my trust in my accountant and I have trust in the software that handles that accounting data and that is where that data goes. Everything else is my computer and my business partner. That's it. Nothing that's sitting out there on a server. And you know I'm not trying to disparage anybody who might be subscribing to those other services, but that's just my personal feeling. I don't know, tom, how you feel about that.

26:55 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Yeah, you got to work within your comfort level, your comfort zone.

26:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
And like.

26:58 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Anne said you can download the spreadsheet. It's on your desktop and then you can back it up to your external hard drive and it never sees the internet and you're totally safe and you got to work within your comfort level of your CRM.

27:18
If you feel that you just need to have another spreadsheet backed up to your hard drive that has a breakdown of all of your contacts, that's all fine too, just as long as you're able to be able to interact with it effectively, so you know when it's time to market to which potential, current or past clients and how you do it, based on this work that you've done with them or the genres that they cast.

27:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
I don't want bosses to misunderstand to say that I don't trust CRMs. I have CRMs and I put my data on them, but I would need to know the specifics of the CRM. You know if they're a major company, I mean if they're not securing their data. You know what I mean and the reason why I'm like this is because I used to work in technology. I used to be the person that needed to secure the data so that nobody could hack in and get it, because I worked for a school with under the age of 18 children, so I needed to make sure that that data was safe. So I'm particularly anal about it. That's where my thoughts come from, so I don't want to like disparage any product out there. Just this is the way I feel about it.

28:09
Anyway what a wonderful way to assess how your year went, because how do you know, like, where you're going if you don't know where you've been, kind of thing. Right. It's nice to be able to assess how your year went, because how do you know where you're going if you don't know where you've been? It's nice to be able to assess how your year went so that you can really assess that, make improvements for the following year, because I know for a fact that I want to grow my business every year after year after year and, like you said, even though we've been in this business for so long, it doesn't get any easier even for us. I still have to strategize.

28:36
How am I going to grow my business next year? How am I going to evolve and change with a shift in the industry? Or, if there's shifts in the industry, how am I changing? Am I getting different performance coaching? How am I marketing myself differently? How am I planning my business? And I can't tell those things unless I've really assessed how the year has gone. So, tom, I so appreciate and we'll be putting the link for that download on our show notes page. And, of course, tom Dheere is always available to chat with. I'm sure you've got like one of those free consults that people can sign up for if they're interested in finding out more.

29:12
We have that also in the show notes. And with that I will say bosses, I hope you had an amazing year. I had a great year compared to like everything that's been going on this year. It's been a crazy year, but you know what? It's been a positive year and I always like a positive year in my business. So, Tom, thank you so much for all of your wisdom and, as always, for being a real boss.

29:35 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Oh, thanks as always for having me, Anne.

29:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
Yeah, All right, Bosses. Big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses have an amazing year coming up. I hope you had an amazing year. Make sure you assess it using Tom Dheere's downloadable PDF, and we will see you next week. Awesome Bye, guys.

29:59 - Intro (Announcement)
Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.