Futuristic

Futuristic 32

[00:00:00] CR: Alright, give me

[00:00:06] SS: two, three, Cameron Reilly, Steve Sammartino, tuning in to the Futuristic Podcast. This is the time, we are the people, and we are so happy to have you here.

[00:00:15] SS: Yes.

[00:00:19] CR: episode, uh, 30, what, 2, I think? Yes, 32, according to my notes. Recording this on the 18th of November, 2024, Steve. We’re, um, we’re back in a new era, back to the future. A new era of a upcoming Trump era. Presidency in the United States, and the main reason I wanted to do a show, uh, there’s a lot of stuff going on, but I haven’t seen enough talk about this in the interwebs of late, is the fact that, as far as I can tell, essentially this means Elon Musk is now The AI czar of the Trump administration.

[00:01:13] CR: They’ve declared that he’s going to be co running the DOGE, Department of Government Efficiency, with Vivek Ramaswamy. But, uh, like you absolutely got to be certain that Elon is going to be running Anything to do with AI, AI regulation, AI investment, and I’d fucking hate to be Sam Altman right about now, because

[00:01:41] SS: The Funk Soul Brother. Check it out now. The Funk Soul Brother. It’s over, brother.

[00:01:49] SS: It’s right, about now. That’s that

[00:01:50] SS: song.

[00:01:51] CR: right, uh, we know that Sam and Elon have got a longstanding beef, um, Elon sued Sam and OpenAI last year, or this year, I can’t remember, Um, over his involvement in OpenAI, uh, uh, uh, and, you know that this now means Elon is gonna be determining the future of, uh, of AI, of AI regulation. I, uh, uh, fuck, what this means for the future of AI.

[00:02:23] CR: And, my big, like, I’ve got a lot of concerns with the Trump Presidency. But one of the biggest I had in this election was, fuck, if Trump wins, what does that mean for the future of AI? Because he’s a loose cannon and he could fuck shit up.

[00:02:38] SS: yeah. He’s not

[00:02:39] CR: my entire life for

[00:02:40] CR: artificial intelligence and the singularity and I don’t want

[00:02:42] CR: it to get fucked up by some orange, uh, moron.

[00:02:46] CR: But then, and like, all right, there’s a lot of things we can say about Elon Musk. And his support for Trump and all those sorts of things. But Elon is max AI, even though he signed the whole AI slowdown thing early on, we all know that was kind of bullshit. Since then he’s invested gajillions of dollars into building XAI.

[00:03:11] CR: We know he’s all about humans and Neuralink integrating AI into our brains and AI helping the human race survive and all this kind of stuff. If Elon and Trump don’t have a falling out again, which I give that better than 50 50 odds,

[00:03:33] SS: 50, at least 50, 50, at

[00:03:35] CR: at least.

[00:03:35] CR: 50, yeah, I’d say 90 10 that they’re gonna have a falling out, maybe even before Trump takes office.

[00:03:42] SS: yeah, Trump’s really impetuous. He can change his mind in a heartbeat on something because someone else gets his ear or something else is relevant to him, which, there’s more to it. And I think that Musk made the investment because he knew there was complexity and risk. I mean, one of the simple ones is Tesla and China, right?

[00:04:04] SS: So that’s antithetical. Trump’s interests and Elon’s don’t overlap there. So there’s a number of things, which I think is why Elon invested so heavily. And while we’re on the topic, can we just say for all the entrepreneurial things that Elon Musk has done and done so well. Including SpaceX and Tesla. His greatest investment of all time was the 119 million.

[00:04:32] SS: He invested in the Trump presidency, which is about 10 percent of how much was raised. The day after the election, the market capitalization of, Companies that Musk’s owns went up by 15 billion. So that’s 126X return on investment in six months. So that’s his

[00:04:55] SS: greatest

[00:04:56] SS: ROI.

[00:04:58] CR: Well, you know,

[00:04:59] SS: And that excludes, that excludes, uh,

[00:05:01] SS: SpaceX. Which you would have to

[00:05:04] SS: imagine,

[00:05:06] CR: for the last couple of years, everyone who said he was an idiot for buying Twitter, and he’d fuck Twitter up, and he was a moron, you’ve heard me say this a million times, we could say lots of things about Elon Musk, but he is not an idiot,

[00:05:20] SS: no, he’s definitely not an idiot. He’s interesting and strange and I don’t like lots of what he does.

[00:05:25] SS: But

[00:05:26] CR: if he bought Twitter, he did it for a reason. Now I don’t think he bought it to get Trump elected because when he bought Twitter, I don’t think anyone thought Trump had any fucking chance of running again and getting the nomination. But yeah, it was. Clear to me from the get go that he bought Twitter because he wanted a platform to get shit done that he could, you know, use it to market his own services and products and that kind of stuff.

[00:05:55] CR: But he obviously has now used Twitter to help get Trump elected, which basically makes Elon and Peter Thiel in charge of the United States government. He and Peter Thiel just bought themselves

[00:06:10] SS: yeah, I, I think he has a lot of attention across every platform because he’s so newsworthy with everything that he does. I think he could have done it without Twitter or X because every feed that I see, and I can promise you, I don’t go onto X at all, uh, these days and I am still filled with musk. News and content because he’s always on, on, on the edge and, and controversy

[00:06:37] SS: works

[00:06:39] SS: in

[00:06:40] CR: Yeah, well I did a big show on the Bullshit Filter a week or two ago about why he threw his weight behind Musk, the China thing is part of it, but he also had about 20 or 30 lawsuits that the Biden administration were going after all of his companies for regulatory issues, And he had, my take, my read on the whole thing is he had just decided that he was going to destroy the Democrats for the, for, as payback for all of the investigations they were doing into all of his companies for labor practices and environmental regulations and all sorts of things, you know, he has that classic laissez faire capitalist mindset, which is, hey, I’m shaping the future and shaping the economy and doing all this good stuff.

[00:07:32] CR: You should just be supporting me and getting the hell out of my way and letting me do whatever the hell I want. Not trying to slow me down. And so he just decided to weaponize Twitter and his attention and his money politically. Citizens 2010, means that there’s no holds barred now for billionaires that want to buy an election in the And he and Peter

[00:07:55] SS: great idea. It’s a great idea

[00:07:57] CR: Oh, fantastic for

[00:07:58] CR: democracy.

[00:07:59] SS: for billionaires.

[00:08:01] CR: Americans keep telling me, we have to save the democracy, and I’m like, what democracy? You have a plutocracy. You don’t have a democracy. It’s

[00:08:09] SS: I prefer kleptocracy. Kleptocracy is good.

[00:08:12] CR: that too.

[00:08:13] SS: Tech

[00:08:14] CR: So anyway, let’s talk, Steve, about the future of AI for a little bit. Um, how we think this is gonna play out with Elon in control.

[00:08:26] CR: And again, this is with the caveat that That Elon and Trump don’t have a massive falling out at some point and then it could all go awry. Let’s say that somehow those two egos can sit in the same room and manage to make it work for four years.

[00:08:47] SS: I, I,

[00:08:48] CR: AGI with

[00:08:49] CR: Elon Musk in control

[00:08:51] SS: I think he’s too far behind. I don’t think he can catch up. Uh, I think that the other players are doing so incredibly well. And when I say the other players, I mostly mean Microsoft and OpenAI. I don’t think he can catch up and, and I think that even though, even though he’s got the year of the president, I think he’ll get advantages given to him in terms of laws and regulations and decision criteria.

[00:09:27] SS: But I don’t know that enough of that is going to thwart Microsoft and Amazon and Google and all of the other players. It’s because. They’re, I think, already a bar ahead, uh, in terms of consumer use, AI tools, not Neuralink, that’s, that’s a separate thing, uh, and ChatGPT at the moment, seriously, absolutely crushing it with its latest improvements.

[00:09:57] SS: So I actually don’t think it’s going to make, in my view, a big difference to the AI race, because I don’t think inside that four years, the others can be thwarted enough. Now, I do think that regulation and laws will be shaped towards Musk’s preference, but I don’t think that You’re going to make up the last eight or 10 years just because you’ve got some regulatory advantages or decisions that are to your advantage. Yeah, really? Well, what I would like to hear is how, because is anyone using any of Musk’s AI products? Like if we look at robocars, way behind. Alright, now he might get some laws placed where his non LIDAR form of, uh, autonomous vehicles might get approved by the Trump administration, uh, he’s got his robots which are way behind the figure one and other robotics, uh, neural implants I think are still a fair way off because that involves humans and it’s very difficult to get that approved.

[00:11:09] SS: In terms of having a consumer based AI like, uh, Anthropic or Gemini or OpenAI, I don’t know anyone who uses that. And if you look at all the usage charts, his is, you know, Grok is way down and functionality in terms of functionality testing is nowhere near it. So that’s not to say that a lot can’t happen in the four years, but I don’t see how, and I’m happy to have you change my mind because you’ve done that before

[00:11:34] SS: and you’re pretty good at it.

[00:11:36] CR: That’s what I’m here for. It’s my job. Look, ahem, Um, let me preface this by saying some news broke in the last 24 hours, uh, that something bad seems to have happened at XAI. Uh, it’s all just rumors swirling about on X, uh, aka Twitter and Reddit at the moment. So We know that you can’t put a lot of stock in that, but somebody tweeted, a guy called Aidan McLeod tweeted yesterday, Elon lost the mandate of heaven, the cosmic rays weren’t on his side, RIPXAI, the GPU looking data center was cool, look out for departures.

[00:12:18] CR: Somebody asked what happened and he said something bad. Now We don’t know what that means, um, this guy, Aidan McLeod, according to his, uh, ex biography, is just, uh, some sort of an AI guy. Um, I don’t know if he actually works there, I don’t think he does, I’m not really sure. Ha ha ha!

[00:12:47] SS: You hear things. Janitors hear

[00:12:49] SS: things.

[00:12:50] CR: Um, but, you know, I had been, uh, Following the sort of XAI thing, I know Elon was on Lex’s show and he’s been talking about this, uh, with, uh, I’ve also heard Jensen Huang from NVIDIA talk about this, but they’ve just built this massive, uh, data center, um, massive, massive, massive data center with NVIDIA chips that was going to be built Bigger than Ben Hur, the biggest AI data center, um, there was another story just in the last day or so that he was raising up to six billion dollars to purchase another hundred thousand NVIDIA chips for the data center in Memphis.

[00:13:31] CR: Um, And there’s this rumor that something really bad has happened. Something’s not working with the, with the training. But I believe that this guy Aiden has got a reputation of posting a lot of shit on Twitter, so I’m not taking any of it seriously, but we’ll see. But that aside, my guess, knowing how brutal Elon can be, did you see the emails that came out over the

[00:13:58] SS: No, you better, you

[00:13:59] SS: better give them to me.

[00:14:01] CR: Emails were released in the

[00:14:03] CR: last 48, 72 hours. From 2017, there were emails from Ilya Sutskever and Greg at OpenAI to Sam and Elon in 2017. They were, so Elon was still involved with OpenAI. There were management meetings happening around funding and executive structure and shareholding moving forwards.

[00:14:29] CR: And Ilya and Greg sent an email. together to Sam and Elon talking about concerns that they had about Elon’s position and Sam’s position about the company moving forwards. And basically the insinuation in the emails was that Ilya and Greg believed that Elon wanted to have dictatorial control over the company and they weren’t sure that was in the world’s best interests if OpenAI developed AGI. They were also concerned about Sam’s motivations as well for running the company and AGI etc etc. They also said a lot of nice stuff about Sam in it, and the email was very diplomatically worded, it was like, listen, we’ve been scared to bring this up, but we feel like we have to bring this up, or we’ll regret it later on, we have to have an open, transparent relationship with you guys if this is gonna go forwards, and they put their position there.

[00:15:32] CR: And it was very, very carefully worded, very diplomatic. Elon’s reply was basically, fuck you guys, deals off. Literally two lines. And then,

[00:15:43] SS: fuck yourselves. Do you want me to say that again?

[00:15:46] SS: Go

[00:15:47] SS: fuck yourselves.

[00:15:49] CR: and the timestamp on his email was like 10 minutes after the timestamp on theirs. Then he sent another one an hour later, which basically said, just to be clear, This isn’t an attempt to negotiate for my current, my former position. That deal is now completely off the table, deals over, everything’s off.

[00:16:08] CR: And he left OpenAI a couple of months later, completely severed his relationship. So that’s the kind of Elon slash. OpenAI relationship, and it’s never recovered from that. It’s basically, I’m going to take my bat, my ball, and my money, and you guys can get fucked. And I’m going to build, and I’m going to build a competitor inside of Tesla, Slash, now, XAI, wherever that sits. So, here’s my take on what could go down. I think Elon is out to destroy OpenAI. And Google. One of the things that came out in this email thread was that Elon’s concern when he created OpenAI was that Demis Hassabis at DeepMind Google was going to end up running all of AGI and he didn’t think that was going to be good for the planet.

[00:16:59] CR: So I think Elon is going to do everything he can do to make sure that he wins the AI race, either by hobbling OpenAI and or Google and or Microsoft’s. and Anthropic’s efforts through regulatory hurdles that they’ll be able to put in place. Keep in mind too that with, Trump now has no guardrails whatsoever.

[00:17:30] CR: He controls the, all three branches of, of the exec, executive, right? Uh, all three branches of government. The White House, Congress, the Supreme Court. He’s got everyone terrified. He can do anything that he wants, pretty much. He doesn’t give a shit about the rule of law. He doesn’t give a shit about tradition.

[00:17:50] CR: And neither does Elon, for that matter. So they can throw any hurdles that Elon wants at OpenAI and the rest of them.

[00:18:02] SS: So I agree with that,

[00:18:03] SS: but I just don’t see what you

[00:18:05] SS: can do in

[00:18:07] CR: oh, he owns, he, he ends up owning OpenAI, is what he can do.

[00:18:12] SS: Okay.

[00:18:13] SS: All

[00:18:13] CR: It’s okay, guys, I can, I can

[00:18:16] CR: either throw so many regulatory hurdles at you that you’ll never ship another fucking product or I take you over and all the regulatory hurdles go away, Sam can fuck off, I now run OpenAI, I bring

[00:18:32] SS: we’re dealing with, but we’re not dealing with open AI, nice little startup. We’re dealing with. Two of the other most powerful organizations in the world. So you’re dealing with Microsoft, you’re dealing with Alphabet, you’re dealing with

[00:18:49] SS: Amazon. Well, like

[00:18:52] SS: I still, I, okay. If he could, how do you just,

[00:18:55] CR: in the, in the Trump administration?

[00:18:58] SS: sorry,

[00:18:59] CR: How many of those have an official

[00:19:01] SS: you’re right. Well, the only way I see them catching up. Is the

[00:19:06] SS: takeover, because it’s certainly not going to do it with

[00:19:07] SS: product.

[00:19:09] CR: Well, I don’t know. I mean, again, it depends on this data center. Like, we know that OpenAI have been struggling to ramp up their data centers as quickly as they want, partly, I think, because Elon has bought all of the Nvidia chips. Um, you know, it, it, it depends on whether or not they actually have problems in their data center, how quickly they can ramp up all of their stuff, because at the end of the day, I mean, yes, there’s a certain level of expertise with training and your RAG methods and all that kind of stuff, but I get the feeling right now everybody in the AI space knows what they’re doing.

[00:19:44] CR: Everyone knows what everyone else is pretty much doing. Google, Anthropic, OpenAI, Microsoft, they all know the basic play here. It’s just who can throw the most amount of money at the biggest data centers. There’s, you know, a little bit of fine tuning and tweaking for the algorithmic approach to this, but really it’s just Who can buy the most amount of Nvidia chips and get them up and running as quickly as possible that’s going to win the day, to a large extent.

[00:20:13] CR: But anyway, I see Elon just throwing everything that he has at making sure that he wins, and if Man, if there’s one thing you gotta say about Elon,

[00:20:22] SS: Yeah, I agree with that. He’s very good at winning. He’s very good at taking over companies that he didn’t found. And taking all the credit that kind of goes with it. Uh, and he’s good at, no he is, he’s done that. And he’s very good at that. And there’s a chance that He could do, I just think that it’s not going to be that easy.

[00:20:42] SS: And if he does try and do that, you’re going to have pretty significant court cases. But as you say, it could go all the way up to the Supreme Court on, on certain, uh, certain things. If anything, Elon could use antitrust to his advantage. Advantage. We know that there’s a multitude of court cases against all big tech.

[00:21:03] SS: Lena Connan and crew and also in the European Union. If there was something that Elon could do quite stealthily is that he could claim that he’s not part of big tech. In that traditional sense, and if I was to, you know, think about a playbook that he could use to get control of some of these companies, is getting to Trump’s ear that it’s dangerous to have Google, Microsoft, and Amazon, already the world’s biggest technology companies, controlling AI, and that should be separate, uh, separation of state, and they should be spun off, And in some way he could get himself involved in that spinoff and take a different form of control.

[00:21:45] SS: He could also say, I’m the only one that has real manufacturing, which has large manufacturing bases in America. And if I have access to the AI and put that within Tesla, we could also use that with Ford and GM and open up robotics and manufacturing back in this country and feed it into humanoid robots, so there’s a play there.

[00:22:06] SS: And that, that would be a plausible trajectory. For Musk to gain control of AI by trying to take it out of the hands of corporations, which already have too much power and use an America first kind of manufacturing regime and

[00:22:25] SS: not giving big tech too much power.

[00:22:26] SS: That could be a smart way to do it.

[00:22:28] CR: And I’ll build your robot fascist

[00:22:30] CR: armies to make sure that, uh, you, uh, remain in power forever.

[00:22:34] SS: Underrated, universal soldier,

[00:22:38] CR: Mhmm.

[00:22:39] CR: Mhmm. Mhmm.

[00:22:41] SS: army is a great name for a punk rock.

[00:22:44] SS: album. And I know we’re on a good podcast when we come up with names for punk rock albums, Robot Fascist Army.

[00:22:52] CR: Mhmm. Mhmm.

[00:22:53] SS: And maybe we can get Gary Neumann to do some of the first songs

[00:23:00] SS: with an industrial punk kind of overlay.

[00:23:02] CR: early 80s Gary Neumann, man, it’s good shit. Um, look, I firmly believe that, um, Trump is gonna try and position himself so he never loses power, uh, as a result of this, because he can’t afford to lose power. He nearly went to jail the last time he lost power,

[00:23:22] SS: And you would think that his megalomania proclivities would have only increased now that he got back in with A Told Ya So. And I would imagine that he’s Even looser with his executive orders and pushing really hard. And this sounds crazy. This is gonna sound so crazy. I really worry about Trump having his finger on the red buttons.

[00:23:46] SS: But I’m kind of interested to see what he could do to Shake and break America. I think that’s probably why he got voted in. I wouldn’t have voted for him because I just think he’s a pretty scary dude and not thoughtful. And you need a thoughtful person that role. I don’t know.

[00:24:07] SS: Your thoughts, Cameron, you’re

[00:24:08] SS: more politically.

[00:24:11] CR: I did a two

[00:24:12] CR: hour show on it last week, man, I’m

[00:24:14] SS: I’ll tune into that. I’ve got a four hour plane ride tonight. So that’s my listening on the

[00:24:18] SS: plane ride.

[00:24:19] CR: Yeah, look, I think it’s a very, very bad time for America and for the world, um, on that respect. I think it’s just going to be a complete mess over there. I’m about to start a series on fascism on my bullshit filter show to sort of explain where this fits in to the history of fascism and the modern form of, like, fascism 20th century was very much, uh, shaped by the inter war era.

[00:24:47] CR: Period. And you had a lot of mostly young men who were rootless. Um, they’d lost friends and family and meaning and purpose, and they’d been

[00:24:57] SS: And we have that now.

[00:24:59] CR: different sort of thing. But yes, and there was an article in the New York Times over the weekend about social media and its contribution to loneliness, young men, uh, all people, but a lot of young men who are lonely, social media has sort of disrupted, uh, even further their ability to make.

[00:25:19] CR: social con social, um, connections over the last 10 years. Anyway, yeah, look, it’s, it’s a very, very dangerous period that we’re moving into, but with a lot of commonalities from the interwar period, a lot of economic inequality, a lot of people feeling betrayed, a lot of people feeling ripped off, and for genuine reasons, in America,

[00:25:41] SS: I agree. I

[00:25:42] CR: has gone overseas, blue collar working

[00:25:45] CR: classes, people are doing it tough, they’re angry, and they’re right to be angry.

[00:25:49] CR: They’re angry at Washington and the big political parties and with good reason. But if they think, born with a silver spoon in his mouth, Trump, who’s driven many, many businesses into bankruptcy and fucked the economy the last time he was president, but they don’t know that because they don’t understand

[00:26:06] CR: economics.

[00:26:07] SS: Yeah, he’s, he’s a, he’s a, he’s a classic confidence man, really, in, in, in, in the greatest sense of the word, he’s, he’s a, he’s a confidence man in, in, in, in every sense of the word, in terms of the businesses that he’s had, he’s basically an economic failure. Uh, if you had invested the wealth he inherited in S& P 500 index, he would be more well off than he is now.

[00:26:28] SS: He’s probably not nearly as well off. As he makes out, he’s been broke. He’s had a number of failed dodgy businesses. He’s just a really dodgy guy. He’s, he’s a monorail man. He is taking the monorail to Springfield, and Springfield had the monorail and then they saw it in a monorail and they’re back and they bought the monorail a second time around in Springfield.

[00:26:49] SS: Like seriously, Trump

[00:26:51] SS: is the

[00:26:52] SS: monorail,

[00:26:53] CR: He’s a classic con man. And anyway, getting back to Musk and OpenAI. Um, I think it’s, I think it’s going to be a really interesting period. And I’m in two minds about it. I think I wouldn’t trust either of the big administrations to manage this next five years as we move into AGI. Uh, but with Elon there, I think he will actually, if he stays in good stead with the Trump administration, will push it in the right direction, but it will be in his direction.

[00:27:29] SS: I think. I think he has good intentions for a GI in terms of humanity, but I think he has. A malintent in that he wants to have absolute and financial control within that. So it’s kind of weird. There’s this dichotomy of him wanting power control and all of those things. But I do think that he does have, and maybe I’ve been sold as well, uh, humanity’s interest in terms of AGI and multi planetary species.

[00:28:00] SS: They seem somewhat altruistic, but he does want power and control while he provides.

[00:28:07] CR: mmm,

[00:28:08] SS: Is, is my sense. Uh, okay. But Big Tech, I think. Strategically, they need to be, have an America First viewpoint. If they appeal to Trump’s viewpoint on National First, uh, the move towards de globalization, bringing manufacturing and robotics back home, making sure you win the AI race.

[00:28:34] SS: If they appeal to that proclivity, they’ll, they’ll do pretty well and probably won’t be split up. with antitrust. And I think the biggest issue is going to be how Musk tries to move those chess pieces to gain more control and power over AI

[00:28:50] SS: himself, as we’ve discussed.

[00:28:53] CR: yeah. Bottom line is, I think Musk will be, slow everyone else down until he can catch up. And or take over what they’re doing, but we’ll see how it plays out. Speaking of open

[00:29:06] SS: AI, yeah, let’s keep going because I’ve

[00:29:07] SS: got some stuff on that.

[00:29:09] CR: well, there’s a rumor that’s just come out today. Uh, again, rumors on X, so take it or leave it. But, uh, rumor is that the O1 preview ends next week, that the results have been good and they’re getting ready for the full. launch. Um, rumors are also that five members of the team left due to disagreements over readiness.

[00:29:37] CR: But, uh, It looks like we’re going to get full 01 and what that means, how that compares to the quote unquote GPT 5, it’s still not very clear to me. I, I don’t use 01 much. I did use it a bit for coding when it came out, but I found that Claude, 3. 5 Sonnet for coding right now, and I’ll tell you about one of my coding projects a little bit later, my recent ones, but Claude is just killing it with coding right now, just killing it.

[00:30:13] CR: Far better experience than O1 for me, but, um, yeah, we may be getting a full O1 launch in the

[00:30:22] SS: I’m still using, O1 is really good for, for reasoning and thought patterns and, and that memory enhancement. I’m finding it’s really good for that when I’m having an elongated bunch of work I’m doing with the AI. Um, I’m still using 4. 0 at the moment. I still find that’s the best when I ask it to create things it can’t do.

[00:30:42] SS: One of my favorite things is when it says I can’t do that, I’m like, can you write some code so that you can do that and give me a client to do the thing? So my view is that it can already do anything because whatever it can’t do, I ask it to teach itself how to do it.

[00:30:58] CR: Right.

[00:30:58] SS: Uh, one of the things that, uh, I’m finding incredible at the moment, and I, I haven’t used Google in more than a week. Because lately since, and I don’t know when the update happened, but going to live web while you’re in ChatGPT is now extraordinary. And I’ll ask it, I’ll say, I want you to combine what you’ve got in your database and go to the web to find the latest live information on X, whatever I’m working on. And it’ll give me that information.

[00:31:29] CR: Mm mm-Hmm.

[00:31:30] SS: I’m just finding the difference that I’m seeing, and this for me feels like the next paradigm. of search, and I guess we’re moving away from search to AI, is give me an answer, don’t give me options. It gives me answers, And it will flag where it got it from, reputable sources, and no doubt it’s using Bing in the background, so Bing is back baby, it’s made the comeback.

[00:31:53] SS: A really stealth back ending of Bing inside to chat GPT by OpenAI and Microsoft, really smart play. finding live web with AI on ChatGPT, I’m finding that’s so great. I was doing an investment portfolio for my daughter, uh, and so one of the things that I like to do with my kids to teach them about investing is you don’t start with investing, you start with what they like. And I did this with both of them three years ago. I said, I want you to write down your favorite products or services. And I just wrote a list. The best companies were in that list. I’m like, who makes those? And I told them the companies and then you give them 10, 000, just a number. It doesn’t have to be real money.

[00:32:37] SS: All right. Allocate these around. And I was just updating my daughter’s portfolio because she changed her mind on some of the things that she wants. in her portfolio and she gave me so many great updates. I went on to ChatGPT 4, asked her to download a spreadsheet with live feeds to the web and do some code so that we can update it at all points.

[00:32:58] SS: Um, sits in a Google Doc with a little macro that will pull the live prices. I just did that in ChatGPT. I didn’t have to ask or go anywhere or code anything and it gives the live updates. All of a sudden I don’t have to go to Google and find, like Google has so many SERPs, the search engine, um, panels and now I can just get that stuff and not go to Google.

[00:33:23] SS: I did some homework on it and research hard to get the exact numbers, but research says anywhere where between 5% and 12% of Google searches are now in chat, GPT

[00:33:36] SS: and open ai. I dunno what, which is massive. Five to 12 percent

[00:33:44] CR: mm mm-Hmm.

[00:33:45] SS: right now also has expanded the work portfolio of what you do. And there’s also some, some risk now because what it does is in a stealthy way, it kind of makes the Microsoft suite of products, Microsoft Office, more compelling and live now because it integrates with the live web.

[00:34:05] SS: So it’s really interesting to see that open AI can really eat into

[00:34:12] SS: search.

[00:34:15] CR: Well, I know that Google is also obviously, uh, integrating their own search results into, or their own AI results into their search. They’re trying to, you know, back end around that.

[00:34:30] SS: Yeah, they are. But I think that. I’ve seen some statistics on data on, uh, the usage of OpenAI and ChatGPT versus the other brands. And it’s, it’s, it’s kind of like Google versus AltaVista.

[00:34:45] CR: hmm,

[00:34:47] SS: it’ll be really interesting to see how important brands are in people’s minds from a tech perspective. Because technology has always had this idea that the utility is always more important than the brand.

[00:35:00] SS: And I think we know that that’s true. And if a product has exceptional utility, the brand grows underneath that utility. But it does make me wonder if people’s mindset now that they had their first experience with open AI, it’s still probably a bit better than the others in my view, in most things on average.

[00:35:18] SS: And I think all of the reports show that at this point is Google just become that old thing and we don’t use that now. And we gravitate across because we’re talking about the large majority of the people. population who aren’t analyzing use case like we are. And they might just go, Oh, well, I want an AI for this and to integrate the web and AI.

[00:35:37] SS: I just don’t use Google for that. Even if Google builds that capability because it’s sort of second or third, you know, first to mind, first to market and you get that transition of consumer behavior across, it will be a really interesting use case. And I don’t think we’ll have to wait long, couple of years to see whether or not Google starts to decline because it’s seen as a search.

[00:35:58] SS: And I don’t want. Answers. I want

[00:36:01] SS: one answer. I don’t want options.

[00:36:04] CR: My sense is a little bit different to that. It gets back to the Apple intelligence conversation that we had a while

[00:36:11] SS: We need to

[00:36:11] SS: have that again.

[00:36:13] CR: I think again, depending on all these other factors, like how Elon, um, changes the game over there, I’ve always felt that The people who actively use AI products today is a very, very small percentage of the population.

[00:36:33] CR: And, uh, so therefore the people that have got any sort of brand loyalty to OpenAI, as I do, despite the fact that I use Claude for all my programming, um, It’s very, very small. And at some point over the next couple of years, AI won’t be a category. It’ll just be part of the built in functionality to whatever your device is.

[00:37:03] CR: Apple will use it with Siri. It’ll, people who don’t use AI will just keep saying, Hey Siri, can you do X for me? Or Siri will say, Hey, Steve, I noticed that you’re trying to do X. Would you like me to help you with that? And that will just become how you integrate with AI. And if it’s on an Android device, it’ll be Google’s option.

[00:37:22] CR: If it’s on an Apple device, it’ll be Apple’s option. And OpenAI and Microsoft will be out in the fringes unless A, they come out with their own device, and I know Sam’s been talking about doing that with Johnny Ive, uh, or B, uh, they managed to shut up for fuck’s sake, Siri. They managed to

[00:37:48] SS: me you were nice to your

[00:37:49] SS: robots.

[00:37:51] CR: except Siri. Yeah, I’m nice to all the good ones, Siri can fuck right off. Um, or, they managed to do something that is so incredibly compelling and so far ahead of the game that they do get everybody, even the laggards. And it’s not even the laggards, it’s mainstream. The mainstream people. Using it. You know, I still ask people all the time, um, are you using OpenAI, are you using AI for anything?

[00:38:19] CR: And they’re like, nah, haven’t, haven’t even touched it, haven’t even looked at it, like just, shh, nah, it’s not even on people’s radars. They’ve, they’ve heard about it, but they haven’t even looked at it yet, which, um, Still blows my mind. I think the device manufacturers that own their own operating systems will integrate it in, and from all intent, for the stuff that the majority of people want to use AI for in the next couple of years, it’ll just be seamless.

[00:38:45] CR: Built in to the background and they won’t even know that they’re using AI. It’ll just be, well, this is what Alexa does. This is what Siri does. This is what, whatever Google’s version. What’s Google’s version called? I don’t even remember.

[00:39:01] SS: Gemini.

[00:39:03] CR: No, No, On the, on the,

[00:39:05] CR: Uh, operating system right now. If you ask, if you ask

[00:39:08] CR: it

[00:39:08] SS: know. I don’t I don’t,

[00:39:10] CR: Yeah. Okay.

[00:39:12] SS: know.

[00:39:12] CR: Hmm. I think it’s just, Hey Google, right? You just say, Hey Google, and it does stuff for you. I think it’s just that, if you have like one of those, like, little devices, little speakers in your, sitting in your house. We used to have one. A Nest! Is that what they call it? A Google Nest?

[00:39:29] SS: Yeah. Google Home,

[00:39:29] CR: to have

[00:39:30] SS: Google Home.

[00:39:31] SS: Just, Hey Google. I think it’s

[00:39:32] SS: just, Hey Google.

[00:39:33] SS: pretty much.

[00:39:33] CR: That’s, that’s what I said. Yeah, it’s just,

[00:39:35] CR: hey Google. I, I think that’ll be the way that most people interface with their AI. It’ll just be built in

[00:39:43] SS: Yeah.

[00:39:46] SS: Potentially.

[00:39:48] SS: Yeah, I probably will. That’ll be your personal AI. I just had a look that apparently the traffic is 180 million per

[00:39:55] SS: month of unique

[00:39:57] SS: users, ChatGPT, and

[00:40:02] CR: That sounds

[00:40:02] SS: that was, that was based on

[00:40:04] SS: Semrush,

[00:40:05] CR: Yeah, right.

[00:40:07] SS: No, no, let me, no, sorry, more than that now, 207 million, according to November 2024, which is pretty small, Google something like 3.

[00:40:16] SS: 5 billion. But if you look at, but if you look at that, if you’re getting 5 percent of search, or 12 percent of search,

[00:40:25] SS: you’re eating it.

[00:40:26] CR: yes.

[00:40:28] SS: It’s

[00:40:28] CR: how many people,

[00:40:29] SS: eating. So it’s a clear

[00:40:31] SS: substitute.

[00:40:33] CR: I mean, to be fair though, I’m not sure how many people are still, are already using it as search. More and more will, of those existing users. I, like you, now use it, but it’s only been in the last, you know, week or two since the live web stuff

[00:40:47] SS: Yeah, since the live web, that’s what I’m saying. This is the moment. This is the moment. And I’ve told so many people, and I’ve shown, I’ve demoed it to a few people. Like I did a talk for the CEO Institute, uh, last week, and I did a couple of live demos of talking to it,

[00:41:03] CR: Mm.

[00:41:03] SS: and, this is an interesting one for listeners.

[00:41:06] SS: It’s easy to think that others in positions of power in life know more than you, and I can promise you they don’t. And that’s not to say that they’re not intelligent or haven’t earned their position, but they are so in their world doing their thing. I had a multitude of companies from logistics, manufacturing, finance, all in this room.

[00:41:28] SS: It was a board presentation to a bunch of CEOs running. Companies had to be worth more than a billion dollars, right?

[00:41:33] CR: Mm.

[00:41:34] SS: So you know, serious executives. they’re just so busy managing their business and their people. They’re not across tech the way that you would be. There’s this really big lag. And I showed them how ChatGPT can go live to web.

[00:41:48] SS: I showed them how you can speak to it and have a conversation about an issue. And, uh, and, and even live video feeds and analyze this data. They, they hadn’t used it. They hadn’t, you know, the lag between capability. And people using it and understanding it is where opportunity lives. And right now in the last couple of weeks, since we’ve gone to live web with ChatGPT, and if people are using 5 to 12 percent of its use case with search, you’d have to say it’s, and there’s only 207 million people on it versus Google at 3.

[00:42:19] SS: 5 billion, it’s going to eat it. It’s going to eat it real big as soon as people find out, because we don’t want a bunch of answers or blue links to go and click and do another five or six Pieces of transaction. I just want a singular transaction with a singular answer from a reputable source and then get it to manipulate the data on the screen as opposed to just getting served up something and I just get the ingredients and I’ve got to cook the dish.

[00:42:43] SS: It doesn’t just give you the ingredients, it cooks

[00:42:45] SS: the dish up for you as well.

[00:42:48] CR: But we should pull those numbers back substantially because the search functionality is currently only available to ChatGPT Plus subscribers and team users. They’re rolling it out to Enterprise and EDU in the next few weeks, and then they say they’ll roll it out to all free users over the coming months,

[00:43:12] SS: It’s going to be extraordinary because that, that will be disseminated really quickly first in companies, people working in jobs and then they’re going to come home and talk to their kids and, and it’s, it’s, it’s, I think this is a really seminal moment. Gee, I’m gonna say it could be a Kodak moment for Google.

[00:43:29] SS: Don’t forget the beauty that Kodak invented all of the technology that put them out of business. I mean, and here we are. Your history is

[00:43:39] SS: certainly rhyming, if not repeating.

[00:43:43] CR: Yeah, although they say they’re rolling it out in the next coming months, which we know from experience with OpenAI can mean any time in the next year, and in the

[00:43:52] SS: Or tomorrow, of course, because sometimes they just bring it

[00:43:54] SS: forward.

[00:43:55] CR: and in the next coming months, Elon Musk is going to be in control of

[00:43:59] SS: About that. About that, Sam. Hey, Uncle Sam. Now I’ve got Uncle Sam, because I’m in Uncle Sam’s office.

[00:44:07] CR: I am Uncle

[00:44:08] SS: it after my fake coin. I am the Dogeman of the Dogecoin. I am Uncle Sam, and goodbye Sam Altman. Elon is in town, and I’m taking OpenAI

[00:44:18] SS: back.

[00:44:19] CR: Yeah. Yeah. Look, um, well, so we’ll see how that all plays out. Um, but let’s go back a step, Steve. Uh, we normally start the show by talking about things that we’ve done recently. Um, tell me about what you’ve done with new tech or, or AI, uh, since we last spoke that

[00:44:39] SS: I’m really Extraordinarily interested in using OpenAI. I’m going to say almost as like a desktop partner now. So now that it’s got web capability, I’m building things inside it. I’m doing my documents inside it. Uh, whether it’s a PowerPoint, whether it’s a presentation, whether it’s writing some code to build something that it can’t do, uh, adding in logos, visuals, giving it bunches of instructions and asking it to put things together for me and then just download them straight to my desktop.

[00:45:12] SS: That’s how I’m using it now. And I’ve only started doing that since it’s had live web integrations because I need to get information and data that’s live. So I’m doing that and adding its capability to build things based on instructions and put three or four ingredients together and to cook me up a recipe of what I want.

[00:45:30] SS: It kind of reminds me of the old IFTT, If This Then That protocol, the IFT, which was a really solid idea. It does that really well now. And so I’ve done a number of Presentation and, and, uh, work tools, you know, creating work tools that have given me really good results. So that’s been the biggest tech usage that I’ve done.

[00:45:54] SS: I’ve also been asking it to troll Google maps to find things for me. One thing I did for a client that I have. I was developing a leads list of manufacturers that are big enough to have electricians. I work for a really big electrical wholesaling company. They’re about a 700 million firm, um, who wholesale electrical goods and solar panels and all that kind of stuff.

[00:46:16] SS: Uh, and they’ve got 113 branches and I just got it to do some real basic stuff that would just be a bit laborious without an AI. I asked it to give me, uh, 10km of radiuses of manufacturing outlets. And hospitals, and uh, educational institutions, things that are big enough. To have in house electricians, uh, things that have been opened within the last six to 12 months to use Google search and give me parameters.

[00:46:46] SS: And it just gave me lists and then I overlaid it and gave my logins for LinkedIn to go in and find the people who have those roles and then get the phone numbers. And I just got these beautiful leads list. And for each branch, I got about

[00:47:00] SS: somewhere between 60 and 80

[00:47:01] SS: leads.

[00:47:03] CR: How did you get it to

[00:47:04] CR: log into LinkedIn

[00:47:05] SS: So I had a window open and I put in the data from window. I didn’t get it to log in. I did a search on that and then dumped that data in there and got it to troll through all of the click throughs rather than me doing it and looking for the data and the patterns. But it would be great actually, that would be actually, that would be super if they, if you could use your logins with

[00:47:34] SS: it so that it could do grunt

[00:47:35] SS: work with

[00:47:37] CR: Well, you can, and I do

[00:47:39] SS: please tell,

[00:47:42] CR: So here’s my story from the last couple of weeks. Um, you know, I run the QAV podcast and I run a bunch of

[00:47:47] SS: super nerdy. We’re getting deep and nerdy on

[00:47:49] SS: this now, today.

[00:47:51] CR: I run a bunch of, uh, portfolios on that. There’s about a hundred stocks in the portfolios that I manage. And one of the problems that I’ve had in the last couple of months is one or two of those companies were acquired and delisted.

[00:48:07] CR: But I didn’t find out about that for a week or two after they’d been delisted because I don’t have time to read the news feeds for a hundred different companies about what’s happening with them and all that kind of stuff. So I, I, I was trying to figure out a solution for this. And, um, what I came up with a week ago was this realization that, I could go into Google News Alerts, which I’ve been using for 20 years, and I could create news alerts around the stock codes for each of these companies, ASX colon BHP, ASX colon FNG, whatever it is, and it would produce, it would follow the news and give me news alerts.

[00:48:53] CR: But, I don’t know. I didn’t, usually you get those as an email, and I didn’t want to get hundreds and hundreds of emails every day that I had to troll through. Then while I was in Google News Alerts, I saw that you could create it as an RSS feed instead of an email, and I thought, well that’s interesting, I could create them and drop them into my RSS reader, but still I’m going to get hundreds and hundreds of emails.

[00:49:16] CR: News stories every day and there’s always lots of duplications of those because five sites will carry basically the same story or the same press release and there’s just a lot of content to have to go through looking for the important stuff. And I didn’t want to have to manually create a hundred, uh, you know, uh, Google News Alerts and copy the RSS feeds and all that kind of shit.

[00:49:42] CR: So I had this idea. I wonder if I can write a script. that will log into Google News Alerts for me and create those RSS feeds and then save them all into an OPML file, which for people who don’t know what that is, it’s basically a format to collect a whole bunch of RSS feeds. So, I wrote a script using Claude to do that and basically it opens a browser session using a Python tool called Selenium, S E L E N I U M.

[00:50:15] CR: Selenium will run a browser session for you and you can give it your login details and it’ll log

[00:50:21] SS: okay.

[00:50:22] CR: You put it in the script, so it’ll log in to Google for me and then it will, um, just do whatever I need it to do in the background. Um And so I created that and it, it, it, I gave it a, um, I copied and pasted all of my stock codes from a spreadsheet, dropped it into the script, and it just created all of that, that OPML file from all the RSS feeds for me.

[00:50:49] CR: But then I was still thinking, I don’t want to have to read all these fucking stories every day. So then I had this bright idea, why don’t I just write an app? That analyzes all of the news stories for me. So the next step was to get Claude to write a script that every day downloads all of those news stories, then sends them to ChatGPT using the OpenAI API, and then it reads all of the stories and prioritizes them for me based on importance.

[00:51:23] CR: Well, first of all, it removes all the duplicate stories. So we can analyze them and go, okay, well, these are all duplicates of that one. So let’s just get rid of all of these and keep this one story. Then it will analyze them for importance based on a set of criteria that I’ve given it, which is like anything that mentions an acquisition or a change to the CEO status or the CFO status, or it mentions a merger or it mentions a,

[00:51:50] SS: So you’re asking it

[00:51:51] SS: what to

[00:51:52] CR: or downgrade.

[00:51:53] CR: Yes.

[00:51:55] SS: So essentially, you’ve created, you’ve coded an agent with a specific end goal in mind, which leads us into, you know, where we’re going. So you’ve built an

[00:52:06] SS: agent.

[00:52:09] CR: I’ve built an

[00:52:09] CR: agent and the bottom, the end point is every time I run this script, it writes a report for me. Which categorize, it scores all of the news stories from, uh, from 10 down to 1.

[00:52:23] SS: Beautiful.

[00:52:24] CR: Important

[00:52:25] CR: down to very low, high importance down to low importance. And I can just read those then and see, okay, here are the highly important stories each day.

[00:52:32] CR: And it basically analyzes all of the news for a hundred companies for me. Tells me what to pay attention to and what to ignore. But the, the key thing for me, the turning point in that whole process was realizing Hold on, I can just code my own. It’s this build your own mentality that my brain has, doesn’t go to first yet, but it was just a brain fart in the middle of the night.

[00:52:54] CR: Holy shit. Why am I trying to do all of it? Why don’t I just build my own? Just tell it to build something for me. That’ll do exactly what I want. And then it did it, you know, it was a little bit, it took me probably an

[00:53:06] SS: This is, you know, this is so

[00:53:07] CR: but it just did it.

[00:53:08] SS: This is so important for a couple of reasons. And why don’t we just talk about the fact that on the next news, one of the news pieces we had was that OpenAI is planning to launch an agent

[00:53:20] SS: early next year. Right?

[00:53:23] CR: rumor.

[00:53:24] SS: Yeah. And, and what you’ve just described is an agent that you’ve built.

[00:53:29] SS: For me, this is important for a couple of reasons. Is that the mindset that you have to, why don’t I just?

[00:53:36] CR: Mm

[00:53:37] SS: Which we all can do now and I did a far less complex version of that with the finding leads and prospects for a business. That why don’t I just thing with agents is actually going to be potentially one of the most important things.

[00:53:55] SS: All of us doing our work, certainly white collar work, is putting together pieces of the puzzle that would never be arranged until you arrived. Because you have certain needs and your ability to direct an agent with AI capabilities to organize the digital factors of production and present them back to you in a certain way upon your needs is actually a really important and new

[00:54:21] SS: type of creative skill that we need

[00:54:23] SS: to develop.

[00:54:25] CR: Yeah, and, and, like, that particular app that I built, probably no one on the planet has that exact same need

[00:54:31] SS: that’s the point. And that’s the exact point is that everyone keeps saying, well, what will we do? Well, we all have really different needs based on our geography, based on our, uh, health, based on where we live, based on what our kids needs are, based on our finances, based on where we work. And so all of us are going to be creating all of these unique agents based on what our needs are.

[00:54:57] SS: Personally, and from a work and a financial and health perspective, and our job is going to be literally working with the AIs. To build these agents, but we’ll probably be doing it more verbally than building some of those pieces or asking it to do the code like you and I have and go to external places.

[00:55:15] SS: And that’s where the integration of Apple AI, if they get it right, where it can log into certain things. And if you have the right trust and security protocols around it, uh, all of a sudden we all develop these amazing superpowers.

[00:55:30] CR: Yeah, it’s, uh, you know, I just did a podcast this morning, um, to commemorate my 20 years of podcasting, which

[00:55:36] SS: Congratulations, by the way, mate, you’re the OG

[00:55:38] CR: Thanks, man.

[00:55:39] SS: That’s how we met.

[00:55:40] CR: but one of the OGs. OG in Australia, but there are other OGs.

[00:55:45] SS: no, you’re the

[00:55:45] SS: OG. I don’t care what anyone says, mate. You are the OG and you reached out to me with an email from the podcast network and I was stimulated. I was like, I’m going on a podcast. I was very

[00:55:56] SS: excited.

[00:55:58] CR: Uh, 20 years ago this month, I did my first podcast and Ewan Spence, who was one of their first hosts on the podcast network a few months later, um, he and I did a show together, but he, he was, we were talking about the role that podcasting has played in society in the last 20 years, of course, including helping get Trump elected, um, this time around being on Joe Rogan and that sort of thing.

[00:56:20] CR: But Ewan positioned it as the democratization of Um, many to many. conversations. Like pre podcasting, if you wanted to interview somebody for an hour and put it out there as a live thing, you had to have a TV show or radio show. You could do pirate radio or that kind of thing, but the, the technical hurdles for all those things were very high or the cost hurdles were very high.

[00:56:52] CR: Podcasting came along and all of a sudden anyone could talk to anyone Pretty much no cost. You just needed a microphone and a recording device, and then you could upload it and get it to the entire world at almost no cost. Uh, so it was the democratization of, of. That kind of content. And you know, I, I talked about the fact that when I started my Napoleon show, I could teach people the history of Napoleon.

[00:57:18] CR: We did like a hundred hours of Napoleonic history. No one had ever done that. And no one ever in history had talked about Napoleon for a hundred hours in a public format like that, like we did. It was You know, probably no one gave a shit either, but it was like a turning point. My point is that was the democra 20 years ago, it was the democratization of audio content.

[00:57:41] CR: We’re talking, this is like the democratization of computer programming, of coding, of being able to write computer programs. Anyone will be able to write a computer program that will do whatever they need at that particular moment. It might be a use once app. I just need to do this thing. Once, like, when I was doing this thing, I needed to get all of these stock codes and build RSS feeds into an OPML.

[00:58:08] CR: It was a one off thing. I don’t need to do that again because it’s done. But I wrote a program that did that and then I can throw it away.

[00:58:15] SS: That’s a strong point, Cam, because what happens now is many of the things that we would like to do, we would look at The cost of doing that, and when I say cost, time, effort, potentially money, and say for the one time I’m going to use it. It’s just not worth the effort. But now with democratized AI where that can be built verbally or just by writing it down and anyone has that capability, many things that never get done all of a sudden might get done and can get done and new value can be created because it’s not too intensive for the one time effort and to then throw it away because it comes down to a efficiency thing.

[00:58:57] SS: And your point, and I say this on stage, I say, Congratulations, everyone in this room is now an AI developer, because if you can type or you can talk, you can do it, and I am not mincing my words. All you need to do is have the wherewithal and the will to try, and to just get on there and use your imagination and ask it to do the thing, and you can do it.

[00:59:16] SS: And I, I just don’t think everyone has realized how powerful that is. Like podcasting has incredible power and you were way ahead to more than 10 years ahead of everyone. And now it’s what is your favorite podcast? It’s like, what is your favorite TV show? Like that is there and deep and ensconced. And, you know, I imagine three years from now, people are saying, Oh, what AIs have you built lately?

[00:59:40] SS: What have you built? Like, what did you get your agent to do lately? Oh, I should have seen what I got my agent to do. Like, that’s going to be cool. We’re going to be saying, oh, I just got my agent to build this. It’s so, it’s so

[00:59:53] SS: amazing. And everyone’s

[00:59:55] SS: going to be excited.

[00:59:57] CR: And that’s an interesting point. So after I built this news app, it was one of those sort of light bulb moments for me. And I was like, fuck, why didn’t I think of this earlier? And what are the other things that I should have done already that I haven’t done just because I haven’t realized that I could do it?

[01:00:12] CR: And I went looking in Reddit for people talking about, here’s the app that I built this week. And I couldn’t think of anything. Find that platform. And I think that kind of needs to exist is a place where we just share ideas. It’s no point me sharing my code with you because my code is specific to me and my login and all that kind of stuff, but just the idea.

[01:00:34] CR: Hey, I built a news app. That filters the news that’s important to me and it’s, um, and, and customize, you know, one of the things that I’ve bitched about for fucking a long time with the internet is why the internet isn’t already filtering all of the news and telling me what I need to know. Like, Spotify does a pretty good job if I’ve, if, if it knows I’m a Nick Cave fan, it’ll go, Hey, Nick Cave’s got a new album out.

[01:01:01] CR: You might want to listen to it. I’m like, fuck yes. I do want to listen to that. Thank you, Spotify. But if Vince Jones is Coming to Brisbane and doing a gig? Which app is telling me, Hey, Vince, you love Vince Jones. You’ve loved Vince Jones for 40 years. You’ve got all of his albums. You’ve seen him live a hundred times.

[01:01:22] CR: Vince Jones is going to be in Brisbane next week doing a gig or a month from now. You should get a ticket and go to the gig. There’s no app that does that for me. Maybe I should build my own that says. You know, just keep an eye out for any news involving any of these artists or businesses or products that I’m interested in and just make sure that I’m aware of it.

[01:01:43] CR: You

[01:01:43] SS: could. You can also, with what you’ve done, say, here’s what I build for, uh, my investment portfolio. I’ve built this agent. Here’s a link to it. Just ask the

[01:01:56] SS: agent to re ask your

[01:01:57] SS: agent to reconfigure that

[01:02:00] CR: Yeah.

[01:02:00] SS: the things that you want. So you kind of like, it’s a little bit like your phone. You have a template and then someone reconfigures it.

[01:02:08] SS: So you can take someone else’s, uh, Software that their agent built, that they guided their agent to build. And then you say, well, I want it now for my kids’ investment portfolio. I’m gonna adapt Cameron’s one, but take these changes to Cams and add this, this, and this for me. Uh, so you will sample your agent to a friend who then reconfigures that agent for their needs.

[01:02:31] SS: It, it does make me think another thing, cam, when we move to this agent based AI environment. And you mentioned that you go to Reddit and different places to get ideas and ideas become a really important currency all over again. I do wonder if we’ll rebuild our websites, not for SEO and search engine optimization, but AI optimization.

[01:02:56] SS: And because the AIs and the agents will be trolling websites to find certain things and to pull that back in. The only difference this time is that It’s not for clicks to people come and do commerce with you. The entire shift takes the person to the AI. So they come and scrape you. It’s going to be interesting to see where the value lands in this chain.

[01:03:20] SS: If I’m extracting information from various sources, does it become extractive in a way where value gets all pushed into the AI and those Creating the ingredients to cook up the dish, get nothing.

[01:03:36] CR: Hmm.

[01:03:37] SS: That’s going to be an interesting shift.

[01:03:42] CR: Well, we’re over an hour, Steve. We should probably, unless you have something else you want to squeeze in, we should probably call it

[01:03:48] SS: I think we got into some deep stuff, but there’s some topics I think here that are on our list that there’ll be more bits on those that

[01:03:55] SS: we can reconvene

[01:03:58] SS: on.

[01:03:59] CR: But the big thing for me is what happens now that Elon’s in charge. We’ll have to wait and

[01:04:04] SS: In Charge! He’s giving him straight to the In Charge. Let’s just say he’s in the house, Ali G style.

[01:04:14] CR: Have

[01:04:15] SS: Talk to you soon, Cam.

[01:04:19] SS: That was cool because we were just fucking talking. I don’t know how it’ll go for everyone else, but