Feb 14 2025 43 mins 1
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In this episode of That Change Show, Jason sits down with Don Gray for a deep dive into the realities of change management—beyond frameworks, buzzwords, and rigid processes. They explore why change is messy, how emotions and values shape resistance, and why organizations often focus on the wrong levers when trying to transform.
Drawing from personal experiences, the Satir Change Model, and insights from complex systems thinking, Jason and Don challenge the traditional right-hand-side approach to change (processes & tools) and emphasize the often-overlooked left-hand-side (culture, strategy, and human dynamics).
Along the way, they revisit stories from the Aye Conference, Agile 2012, and Problem Solving Leadership (PSL) workshops, discussing how adaptive thinking, small shifts, and informal change agents can lead to meaningful transformation.
What You’ll Learn:
✅ Why organizations resist change—and why that’s normal
✅ The butterfly effect of small shifts in complex systems
✅ How patterns form, evolve, and disrupt change efforts
✅ The power of timing, emotions, and informal change agents
✅ Why solving problems for people actually makes things worse
🎧 Listen now to rethink how you approach change!
Show Notes and Links
REITH LECTURES 1970: Change and Industrial Society: https://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rmhttp/radio4/transcripts/1970_reith2.pdf
Don's contact information
website: donaldegray.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/donaldegray/
Mastodon: @[email protected]
Congruent Change information
website: congruentchange.com
LinkedIn page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/congruent-change/
Mastodon: @[email protected]
Don's Change Mind Map: https://www.congruentchange.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/Change.pdf
Problem-solving Leadership information
web url: https://www.congruentchange.com/problem-solving-leadership/
registration request at the bottom
details for the March workshop ...
When: March 20 - April 4, 2025
Where: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Fee: $2995
Jerry Weinberg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Weinberg
Jason Little is an internationally acclaimed speaker and author of Lean Change Management, Change Agility and Agile Transformation: 4 Steps to Organizational Transformation. That Change Show is a live show where the topics are inspired by Lean Change workshops and lean coffee sessions from around the world. Video versions on Youtube
