The Reluctant Leader Podcast with Paul Jenkins

In this interview, we take a deep dive with Karl Vaters, a seasoned pastor and author, as he challenges the conventional obsession with church size. For over 40 years, Carl has been an advocate for small churches and has worked to redefine success beyond just mere numbers.

Whether you're a church leader feeling the pressure to grow or just curious about the future of faith in America, I think you’ll find this interview fascinating, and Karl’s perspective refreshing.

More from Karl:
Visit his website at karlvaters.com to connect with Karl on all his socials
Grab his newest book, De-Sizing the Church, on Amazon and other retailers
Karl's podcast, The Church Lobby, is worth a listen!

Thanks for listening to The Reluctant Leader Podcast with Paul Jenkins! Find me on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram, and be sure to read the stuff I'm writing on my blog.