Messy Jesus Business

Episode 78 of Messy Jesus Business podcast, with Sister Julia Walsh.

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Forgiveness is a process, not a product."

-Kaya Oakes

IN THIS EPISODE

In this episode of Messy Jesus Business podcast, Sister Julia Walsh FSPA chats with Kaya Oakes. Their conversation goes into the issues and ideas about forgiveness that Kaya explores in her new book, Not So Sorry. To her, forgiveness is often an expected act that doesn't include avenues for processing. Kaya discusses "restorative justice as a model for a collaborative kind of forgiveness that I think is closer to what Jesus was talking about." Later in the podcast she adds, "it's like him saying give yourself time and space to decide what God's calling you to do."

Sister Julia and Kaya also talk about Kaya's breast cancer. She talks about the frustrations of the process of diagnosis and treatment, as well as how dealing with a serious medical need requires more than just individual action. As Kaya says, "you don't survive cancer without a community."

Kaya Oakes

ABOUT THE GUEST

Kaya Oakes is a journalist and author of many books, most recently, "Not So Sorry: Abusers, False Apologies, and the Limits of Forgiveness," as well as "The Defiant Middle: How Women Claim Life’s In-Betweens to Remake the World,""The Nones Are Alright," and "Radical Reinvention." You can also find her on her Substack and on her last guest appearance on the Messy Jesus Business Podcast. She teaches writing at UC Berkeley. Her work has received multiple awards, with her essays and journalism appearing in The Guardian, Slate, Foreign Policy, The Washington Post, and On Being. She was born and raised in Oakland, California, where she still lives. Find her on Instagram @kayaoakeswrites, or on X @kayaoakes.

MESSY JESUS BUSINESS is hosted by Sister Julia Walsh. 

Produced and edited by Colin Wambsgans.

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