Bad People

What happens when a man serving multiple life sentences keeps killing in prison? In July 1996, while in solitary confinement, Craig Bjork wrote to the warden of Stillwater prison in Minnesota threatening to commit mass murder against his fellow inmates. One year later he kills his first victim. Bjork who was already serving three consecutive life terms for killing his entire family reportedly asked ‘what can they do? Give me more time?’ On this episode of Bad People presenters Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss and a phenomenon called ‘prisonisation, violence and sexual assault in prison, and the importance of keeping inmates safe. Warning: This episode contains references to violence in prisons, sexual assault, extreme violence against children and executions. Presenters: Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler #BadPeople_BBC Archive credits: This episode includes audio from The Star Tribune newspaper.

Early one morning in July 2019, Brandon Clark used his online platform to share graphic photos with his followers, including a photo that appeared to show a woman’s bloodied torso, captioned “I’m sorry Bianca”. Not long after this, police found Brandon lying on top of a green tarp. He had spray-painted the words “May you never forget me” on the ground. He had killed 17-year-old ‘micro-influencer’ Bianca Devins. Why did he choose to broadcast her murder? Sofie Hagen and Dr Julia Shaw discuss ‘e-girls’, research on jealousy and male proprietariness, and what we need to consider to avoid similar horrific acts happening in the future. Warning: Contains strong language and references to violence and murder. Archive credits: This episode contains audio from WIBX's Keeler Show and eyewitness news Utica Producer: Caroline Steel Assistant producer: Simona Rata Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler #BadPeople_BBC

Charles Sobhraj is a convicted killer and the inspiration for the new BBC One drama, The Serpent. Julia and Sofie speak with producer Paul Testar to learn what it was about Sobhraj that inspired this show. Was it the nature of his crimes? His charm? Or something else? Julia and Sofie discuss Maslow’s hierarchy of needs and how this famous construct was partly inspired by hippie culture. Perhaps Maslow can help us better understand how Sobhraj appealed to so many people travelling abroad? Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to violence and murder. Presenters: Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Assistant producer: Simona Rata Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler #BadPeople_BBC

When far-right terrorist Anders Breivik murdered 77 people, many of whom were children, court-appointed psychiatrists declared him insane. Many Norwegian members of the public were angry that a diagnosis of a psychotic disorder would mean he would not be held accountable for his crimes and might even be freed early. He told doctors that he was the leader of a military group at war with Norway, committed to racist, anti-Muslim ideas. Breivik himself rejected the "insanity defence", insistent that he committed the mass murders with the aim of achieving high-profile media coverage at his trial. This episode of Bad People wrestles with the problem of giving media platforms to terrorists, radicalised by the internet A second evaluation found him to be sane. This time psychiatrists said that his symptoms were due to a severe narcissistic personality disorder combined with pathological lying and therefore he was accountable for his actions. 22 July 2011 forever changed Norway's relationship with homegrown extremism and it's hoped that the knowledge gained by psychiatrists about such terrorists will help to prevent future attacks. Warning: This episode contains descriptions terrorism, extreme violence and death, including the death of children. Presenters: Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Paula McGrath Assistant producer: Simona Rata Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler #BadPeople_BBC Archive credits: This episode includes audio from the United Nations, TEDx Talks and BBC News

On February 7th 2009, Australia experienced its worst natural disaster. The weeks-long intense heat and gale force winds culminated in 400 separate wildfires which ended up taking 173 lives. In the town of Churchill, detectives began an investigation which led them to believe that one man, driving a sky-blue sedan, may be responsible for 10 of those deaths. After the arrest, detectives quickly realised that the man in their custody was not who they thought they'd be dealing with. On this episode of Bad People, presenters Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss wildfire arson, the dubious origin of the link between sex and fire and how we can tell when someone is malingering. Presenters: Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler #BadPeople_BBC Archive credits: This episode includes audio from ABC, Inside The Mind of An Arsonist.

If a killer refuses to reveal where they’ve hidden a body – should they have to stay in prison? Helen McCourt’s family campaigned for the UK to adopt an Australian-style “no body, no parole” law – but would it be adopted in time to stop the release of her killer? In 1989 pub landlord Ian Simms was one of the first people in the UK to be convicted on DNA evidence without the victim's body having been found. Sentenced to at least 16 years in jail for Helen's murder, Simms still claims he's innocent. The jury were convinced by forensic evidence such as traces of Helen's blood which were found in Simms' flat and car. An opal and pearl earring identical to one Helen was wearing when she went missing was also found in the boot of his car. Although "no body, no parole" might act as a deterrent to some offenders who choose not to reveal where their victim's body is, we also hear hear about concerns that it might interfere with the goals of rehabilitating offenders and reducing re-offending. The 750,000 signatories to a petition supporting Helen's Law believe that the needs of families whose pain continues as long as they have no body to bury should be prioritised. Helen's mum Marie McCourt hopes that one day she will be able to take flowers to Helen's grave.

There were signs that the former polo player Alexander Lewis Ranwell was unravelling in early 2019. He’d lost his job and his girlfriend, was living in a caravan and was no longer taking medication to treat his delusions or hallucinations. He’d been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia and had a history of substance abuse. He was arrested after letting loose animals and attacking a farmer and later released by the police, despite his bizarre behaviour. A short walk from the train he took to Exeter he came across a house where the elderly resident had a note on his door: he was looking for accommodation for himself and his cat. Suffering from delusions, Lewis Ranwell believed himself to be a policeman, hunting down paedophiles, and that a missing girl was being held prisoner in homes he randomly selected. In the two houses he visited three elderly men were found dead. No one at Exeter Crown Court could remember the defence of insanity being used in a case before – so how difficult is it to prove? In this episode of Bad People, presenters Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore the reality of paranoid schizophrenia, exposing some of the myths which exist in popular culture and stigmatise mental illness. Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to murder and violence. Presenters: Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Paula McGrath Assistant producer: Simona Rata Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler #BadPeople_BBC

An excavation reveals horrific truths about Robert Pickton. The bodies of dozens of women are unearthed on a pig farm, many of whom are sex workers and indigenous. Pickton’s defence team argues that he has a low IQ and was used as a pawn. On this episode of Bad People, presenters Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss how Canadian police failed indigenous women and talk to Professor Stephen Hart who worked with the prosecution in the Pickton case to discover what we can really know about one of Canada’s most notorious serial killers. This case is broken into two episodes. This is part two. We highly recommend you listen to part one before tuning into this episode. Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to sexual violence and murder. Presenters: Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Assistant producer: Simona Rata Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler #BadPeople_BBC Archive credits: This episode includes audio from East Van Production’s documentary, The Pig Farm. Reference Sentencing decision: R v Robert William Pickton [2007] BCSC 2039

Over 60 sex workers go missing in Vancouver. Robert Pickton is a pig farmer. There are stories of bloodied women's clothes on his farm and even a dead body hanging in a barn. But this isn’t enough for the police to search his property. Could he be to blame? On this episode of Bad People, presenters Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss research on why people don’t always tell the truth and often retract police statements. This case is broken into two episodes. This is part one. Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to sexual violence and murder. Presenters: Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Assistant producer: Simona Rata Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler #BadPeople_BBC

Hospitals are places of safety, where staff help people to get better. So the parents of four children left in the care of Beverley Allitt never imagined that she’d harm them. The 22 year old nurse was convicted of their murders and harming 9 others on Ward Four at the Grantham and Kesteven hospital in Lincolnshire in 1991. Police worked out that Allitt was the only person present for all of the unexplained collapses and that she had reported the key to the insulin fridge missing. Childhood friends and nurses she trained with later told of her self-harm and bizarre behaviour including finding faeces in the fridge. In this episode of Bad People, presenters Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the self-harming seen in Munchausen Syndrome - and how it can develop into Munchausen by Proxy - where a caregiver induces or fabricates a child’s illness. They ask: could Allitt have been stopped earlier? Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to violence against children. Presenters: Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Paula McGrath Assistant producer: Simona Rata Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler #BadPeople_BBC Archive credits: This episode contains audio from Real Stories, Sky, ITV.

People have been going missing from Toronto’s Gay Village since the 70s. The gay community claims that the police are not taking the disappearances seriously enough. The pieces start to fall into place when one man goes missing and leaves a diary entry for that day saying “Bruce”. Police survey a Bruce McArther, a gardener and mall Santa. When they see him enter his flat with another man, they break the door down only to find a man handcuffed to his bed. On this episode of Bad People, presenters Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen uncover why there are very few serial killers over the age of 40, and why people from vulnerable populations are less likely to be reported missing. Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to sexual violence, and murder. Presenters: Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline Steel Assistant producer: Simona Rata Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler #BadPeople_BBC Archive credits: This episode includes audio from CBC, Global News and W5.

Murderers. Psychopaths. Sex offenders. Why do people do bad things? Bad People is back. Warning: Contains strong language and references to sexual violence and murder. Archive credits: This episode contains audio from CTV Television network and Global News. Producer: Caroline Steel Assistant producer: Simona Rata Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler #BadPeople_BBC

Elizabeth Holmes is the world’s youngest self made female billionaire. But her nine billion dollar startup disintegrated when the truth came out. On this episode of Bad People, presenters Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss how to tell if someone is trustworthy or not. Also, why we are so easily fooled by a pretty face and false promises. Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to sexual violence and child abuse. Presenters: Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producers: Caroline Steel and Simona Rata Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler Archive credits: This episode contains audio from CBS News

In the small Danish town Tønder, a man is talking to a friend when the conversation takes a dark turn. His friend asks him whether he wants to have sex with an 11-year-old girl. He immediately alerts the police. On this episode of Bad People, presenters Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss how violence is - and isn’t - passed down through generations. Also on the show, the psychology of child sexual abuse and exploitation, and why it’s so important to have difficult conversations about paedophilia. Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to sexual violence and child abuse. Presenters: Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producers: Louisa Field and Caroline Steel Assistant producer: Simona Rata Editor: Rami Tzabar

Some 10 million tonnes of industrial waste has reportedly been dumped in a small Italian town over the past 30 years. The local mafia is suspected of securing lucrative contracts to dispose of waste and then dumping it illegally. Three decades ago doctors noticed that incidences of cancer in towns around the dumping site were on the rise. But the dumping is still happening. How can large scale crime like this take place right underneath our noses? What is it about green crime that makes us “ethically blind”? Warning: This episode contains strong language. Presenters: Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producers: Louisa Field and Caroline Steel Assistant producer: Simona Rata Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler

Two friends knock on Angie Dodge’s door and find her lying on the floor. She had been raped, stabbed and her throat cut. The police arrive, take DNA samples from the scene and start rounding up suspects. Chris Tapp was 20 years old at the time and though his DNA did not match the crime scene samples, he was called in. A few questions turned into over 100 hours of interrogations and seven polygraph tests. By the end of it, Chris confesses to killing Angie – a crime he had no recollection of committing. On this episode of Bad People, presenters Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss how you might end up confessing to a crime you didn’t commit. Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to sexual violence and murder. Presenters: Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producers: Louisa Field and Caroline Steel Assistant producer: Simona Rata Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler Archive credits: This episode contains audio from police tapes.

Two six-year-old boys and a 5-year-old girl, Silje, are on a playground in the Norwegain town Trondheim. The next day Silje is found dead. The boys had punched and kicked the five-year-old girl before stripping off her clothes and leaving her to die. How does this Norwegian case, and it’s response, compare to the famous case of James Bulger in the UK? At what age should we be held responsible for our actions? Nations struggle to decide how to answer this question, and some community responses shatter our expectations - for better or for worse. On this episode of Bad People, presenters Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the age-old debate of nature versus nurture. Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to murder and child abuse. Presenters: Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant producer: Simona Rata Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler #BadPeople_BBC

A man breaks into Jennifer Thompson’s apartment, severs her phone wires and rapes her. Jennifer studies his face, hoping to remember enough details so that she can identify him later. In a police line-up, Jennifer is able to point out Ronald Cotton as her rapist and in two separate trials he is convicted of rape and burglary. He is sentenced to life in prison plus fifty-four years. It seems like the case is resolved. There’s only one problem: Cotton is innocent. On this episode of Bad People, presenters Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss why we should all be weary of our memory when identifying a person of a different race. Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to sexual violence. Presenters: Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant producer: Simona Rata Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler #BadPeople_BBC Archive credits: This episode contains audio from CBS News and CDI (La Ciudad de Ias Ideas) International Festival.

Police officer Gilberto Valle opens the door to find his house surrounded by the FBI. His wife had discovered gruesome stories of kidnap and cannibalism that Valle had written about more than 100 women in an online forum. Among the stories, the wife found a detailed description of how Valle wanted to cook her alive and eat her. Valle argued that he never intended to hurt anyone and that it was all fantasy. He was sentenced to life in prison but was later released. He became known as the “cannibal cop”. On this episode of Bad People, hosts Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss whether we should police people’s thoughts, and ask whether we should fear our own dark fantasies. What is the line between fiction and reality? Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to murder, cannibalism and sexual violence. Presenters: Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant producer: Simona Rata Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler #BadPeople_BBC Archive credits: This episode contains audio from Crime Watch Daily and HBO Documentary Films.

John was home alone with his father when he suddenly remembers being abused as a child. In a fit of rage he strangles his father to death. In 2017 John wrote to Julia from prison. He had an unnerving inkling – maybe he hadn't been abused by his father, maybe everything he thought he knew about why he killed his dad was wrong. On this episode of Bad People, hosts Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss whether we can trust our own memories and the consequences of ‘false memories’. They discuss the work of professor Elizabeth Loftus who pioneered the work on false memories, as well as the research Julia has conducted on implanting false memories of committing crime. Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to murder and child abuse. Presenters: Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant producer: Simona Rata Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler #BadPeople_BBC

A high school house party is in full swing in the quiet town of Peachland, Canada. Suddenly, hysterical screams are heard. 16-year-old Ashlee Hyatt has been stabbed to death in the middle of the driveway. Piece by piece we learn about the girl who is ultimately convicted of manslaughter, relating it to the story of the Canadian “Barbie” serial killer, Karla Homolka and notorious Hungarian countess Elizabeth Báthory. Murder is a typically committed by men, and the victims are mostly other men. Globally, women represent less than 5 percent of perpetrators. On this episode of Bad People, presenters Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss when and how women kill. Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to sexual violence and murder. Presenters: Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producers: Louisa Field and Simona Rata Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler Archive credits: This episode includes audio from SkyTV, Castanet News and National Geographic.

In the summer of 1984 a serial killer was on the loose in Los Angeles. Richard Ramirez or the ‘night stalker’ as he would come to be known, broke into people’s houses as they slept and then proceeded to rape, torture and murder whoever was inside. He would sometimes draw satanic pentagrams on the victims’ bodies, and use their own blood to write messages on the wall. During his trial, Ramirez gained a large group of admirers, so-called ‘murder-groupies’. He would go on to receive hundreds of letters while in prison and even got married while on death row. Ramirez is not alone in getting this kind of romantic attention. Cult leader Charles Manson, Norwegian mass murderer Anders Breivik and Danish killer Peter Madsen have all received fan-mail. On this episode of Bad People, presenters Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen uncover why some women seek out romantic relationships with men who have committed horrific crimes. Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to sexual violence, Satanism and murder. Presenters: Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant producer: Simona Rata Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler Archive credits: This episode includes audio from DailyMotion, NBC Universal and KRON4.

Murders. Sex offenders. Corporate psychopaths. Cannibals. This is a podcast about the people we consider to be the worst around.