The One CA Podcast

Brian Hancock hosts Brad Hughes in a two-part discussion on how Civil Affairs and the 38G civil society programs are helping the U.S. in its foreign policy outreach in the Pacific. This is part one of two.

Brad Hughes Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bradfordhughes/

Brian Hancock Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brian-j-hancock/

One CA is a product of the civil affairs association

and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership.

We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.

To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail dot com

or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org

Special thanks to DrSaxLove for the sample of "Nearness of You." Found on Cocktail Party - 40s Music. Retrieved from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvH-nbindvk

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Credits

Sponsor: Civil Affairs Association

Host: Brian Hancock

Showrunner / editor: Jack Gaines

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00:00:07 Introduction

Welcome to the 1CA Podcast. This is your host, Jack Gaines. 1CA is a product of the Civil Affairs Association and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on ground with the partner nation's people and leadership. Our goal is to inspire anyone interested in working the last three feet of foreign relations. To contact the show, email us at capodcasting at gmail dot com. or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www .civilaffairsassos .org. I'll have those in the show notes.

00:00:47 BRIAN HANCOCK

Welcome to One Civil Affairs Podcast. I'm Lieutenant Colonel Brian Hancock, and I'll be your host for the session. Today we have with us Colonel Bradford Hughes to discuss innovative training for civil affairs functional specialty teams, or FXSP. building partner capacity, and military governance experimentation. Colonel Hughes, welcome to the show.

00:01:07 BRADFORD HUGHES

It is great to be here, and I am excited to talk about the civil affairs and specifically initiatives with the 38 Golf Program.

00:01:16 BRIAN HANCOCK

Oh, outstanding. That is one of the greatest developments that's happened to civil affairs in a long time, and there's a huge appetite out there to hear more about that, and I know you will definitely do that justice. I've had the pleasure of working with you. Some in the audience haven't. Let me tell everybody a little bit about you. Colonel Bradford Hughes is a 38 Gulf military government specialist, often likes to refer to himself as Brad. He is skilled at building partnerships, articulating a vision, and positioning value. As a former Master Army Aviator and UH -60 maintenance test pilot, he led multiple combat and humanitarian relief deployments across the world. Colonel Hughes serves as the government functioning specialty chief of the 351 Civil Affairs Command in Mountain View, California, where his team employs a civilian acquired skills and operates in the interagency intergovernmental environment to deepen the influence across the Pacific. He is also a certified gender advisor, leading efforts with the command to mainstream gender perspectives. into planning and operations. Just a quick reminder to the audience that all the remarks by Colonel Hughes and myself are solely ours. All right. Now, it's been several years since we have worked together. You apparently have been very busy there building an amazing functional specialty team at 351 and developing the 38 golf program.

00:02:50 BRADFORD HUGHES

Yeah, for sure. And before we get started, I just wanted to take a moment and really thank the previous commanding general for the 351st Civil Affairs Command, Brigadier General Retired Chris Zubek. Yeah. His focus was getting civil affairs capabilities across the international dateline so we can execute in the Pacific. With our new CG, that's Brigadier General Brian Horton, I think we've achieved this. And we are working towards refining how we engage and truly leverage the value proposition of Army Reserve Civil Affairs. And also, I wanted to give a shout out to Colonel Chris Cray and his 364 Frontier Civil Affairs Brigade and his team's work with Pacific Frontier 24.

00:03:37 BRIAN HANCOCK

Outstanding. Good things happening everywhere. The Pacific is the biggest place in DOPECON, the largest combatant command. And unfortunately, it's not full of countries that are all identical. In fact, they're all unique. So it's a very challenging problem set. Love to hear what's going on. I know we're going to be talking more about that. For those who are just tuning in, can you tell the audience a little bit about your role at 351 Civil Affairs Command as the functioning special team chief? You know, what's a duty day like for you?

00:04:10 BRADFORD HUGHES

for you? I do consider myself an entrepreneur. I direct operations for an all on -demand helicopter charter company. We serve an interesting portfolio of clients from Tesla and University of Texas Athletics. There's another hookup for you, NASCAR, and even the San Antonio Spurs. I also do work as a technology transfer consultant where I provide clients with intellectual property management and we make market -based recommendations. I bring that up because the cross -cutting component really between my civilian and military roles is that I think I'm competent at identifying trends and seizing opportunity. And with that, the opportunity to advance civil affairs, the enterprise at every opportunity is incredibly important for myself into recruiting and retaining top talent. I like to think I function as a brand ambassador. I strive to build readiness by developing innovative opportunities that build cross -component, joint, and combined synergy. All efforts lead to continued refinement of the government function specialty team, FXSP interoperability across KCOM, music KPOC, and unified action partners. So together, that's what gives me great satisfaction.

00:05:31 BRIAN HANCOCK

And that's a critical mission. I also love the way that you brought up the critical civilian skill sets that are required here. Whether it's large -scale combat operations, coin operations other than war, there is a desperate need for us to interface effectively with host nations, civil authority. That's where strategic victory lies. We'll talk a little bit more about that later. And you have just impeccable civilian credentials. I really wish on our board process that they would consider our civilian credentials as reservists, but perhaps something for human capital management in the future, but certainly they're essential for a 38 golf. Of course.

00:06:13 BRADFORD HUGHES

And I think we'll talk a little bit about this towards the end, but getting back to the golf program, it's currently structured with multiple skill identifiers. There's 18 of them. that target specific skill sets nested within various government function specialty areas. So these can range from commerce to archivists, transportation, and everything in between. So the Gulf program is a Army Reserve program that complements the active component. And military government officers, yes, subject matter experts, they're technically qualified, their experience, and a little bit of the company line here. They advise, enable, and assist commanders, and importantly, direct civilian counterparts with stabilizing and providing governance expertise. One thing I've always stressed is I think that capability should reside at the KCOMs just based on strategic significance of the goals, but there is force structure down to the battalions. But again, we, the 351, we try to pull that capability up to the KCOMs. I think that's where we can truly leverage the expertise of the goals.

00:07:22 BRIAN HANCOCK

Yeah, that makes sense to me. I know Brigadier General Zubik, who has recently departed, he developed a plan for digital reconnaissance, digital reachback, leveraging some of those capabilities at Echelon. So it makes sense to house things there, especially if there's a capability that can be delivered in time and space as required to all of the maneuvering elements. So that makes good sense to me. Let me ask you a little bit about this. I've had the pleasure, you know, working here at a four -star command. Lieutenant General Jody Daniels comes by periodically. Sometimes she does a town hall, and then she presents new information. One time she came out and talked about one of her recent publications, very, very interesting, a very accomplished senior leader. And one of the things that she's been saying is she wants our TPU, our troop program units in the reserve, to conduct novel training. And to experiment, she's not married to the traditional one weekend a month, two weeks a year type of battle assembly format. Now, I understand that you have done something with that at 351, that you've embraced that opportunity. Can you tell the audience a little bit about your efforts there? And, you know, if you're willing, share some results.

00:08:37 BRADFORD HUGHES

Yeah, absolutely. And I will say that resource allocation, to me, is negatively impacting Campo 3 or Army Reserve culture. As I mentioned, the golf program, we recruit experts from across the country. And we may have somebody on the East Coast that's interested in what the 351 is doing in the Indo -Pacific AOR. But because of the reduction in resources, I think many are starting to feel a little bit underserved. And because of these reductions, we've acknowledged the challenges. And now we collectively, our team comes to Mountain View once per quarter. And we call that a traditional non -battle assembly approach. We feel that this approach may become the norm for both use of KPOP and really across the Army Reserve. And I could get into the blocking and tackling of it. We look at it as a three -legged stool organized around fiscal year quarters. So looking at the three months per quarter, month one, we come in for mandatory collective training. And that's where we come in for the non -negotiable. Training events. So thank ranges, ACFT, things where we need full -time support. And we have some of the non -negotiable FXSP events like heart training, disaster management, JAUC is through USAID. That's month one. We hit those non -negotiables. Month two, and I think collectively we learned coming out of the pandemic that individual readiness, professional development, things like that. are easier to accomplish at your home of record. It doesn't make sense to come to Mountain View to do an SGLV or DD93, PHAs, stuff like that. You can get after that at the house. Well, isn't IPSA supposed to make that go away? That's a good question. I will defer. I'm still waiting. I've got to defer to the human resources experts for that. While you're at the house, continuing education needed for professional credentialing, networking, knowledge building, all that stuff can be done at the house. Or research tasks. I think you spotlighted that a little bit. Initiatives or projects that we're trying to advance. And then quickly, the month three, we call it EPO driven. So an EPO is an exercise planning officer or NCO. And either he or she will make a determination on the location. We assign an EPO to an exercise or engagement, and it's that person's responsibility to do everything for theater entry to get that team downrange. So the EPO is going to make the call, hey, does that bring us to Mountain View? Yeah. Where we need full -time support or access to systems or maybe an alternate location to secure official passports. There may be SIF or Sarnet access someplace else other than Mountain View where it makes sense for the team. participating in whatever the exercise or engagement is to go there. Stakeholder coordination as examples. So three -legged stool broken down by fiscal year quarters. That's how we're getting after it.

00:11:48 BRIAN HANCOCK

That makes sense. I was worried you're going to hit me with Colonel Lykes' ins ways and means on that stool there, but glad that it went in a different direction. And thanks also for mentioning the importance of the government passport. Many folks out there in the military, at least in Campo 3, don't have the opportunity to travel as far and wide as some of the civil affairs soldiers do. And many of the nations they're going to, a government passport is actually not required. But many countries, especially some of these small island nations in the Pacific, most of Africa, etc., you're not going to get there on a government mission without a government passport. And I know that you've cracked the code on how to get that. If an emergent mission comes up, I can send the team pretty fast,

00:12:32 BRADFORD HUGHES

can't you? We can. And we cracked the code last year and then things change. I will tell you that the majority of team members have their passports, but then we'll get caught up short with a visa requirement. And suddenly we've got to expedite that in order to get the team down range. I will mention too, just as a cost savings measure, we'll also encourage team members to drill with neighboring units. National Guard in Arizona, they may be conducting an ACIT. We have soldiers who are close. They'll go there and execute. And it also allows us to broadcast the capabilities of the 38 Gulf, whether it's to the Guard, other compo three units, active duty. So we look at it as an opportunity for folks to showcase their expertise to a new audience.

00:13:18 BRIAN HANCOCK

And that's fantastic. As you're well aware in civil affairs, we don't have lieutenant level positions. We're always having to take folks from an entry MLS and invite them to the team and get them to cross over. So it's fantastic that you're spreading, you know, evangelizing the awesome mission that we have. It's amazing when you tell people the things that you get to do at Battle Assembly as a civil affairs soldier versus the things that they do. Oftentimes the program just sells itself. Yeah, for sure. And I don't think the money situation is getting any better.

00:13:49 BRADFORD HUGHES

don't think the money situation is getting any better. And we'll continue with this non -traditional BTA approach. It's working for us. And I really think it's going to be the new model.

00:13:59 BRIAN HANCOCK

be the new model. Outstanding. I suspect we're going to see more of that from other units moving forward. Let's switch gears for a second. I know many of the folks in the audience are not aware of that secret gem for training we have in Combo 3, known as innovative readiness training. IRT. I understand that 351 Civil Affairs Command actually has been heavily involved in the IRT program and a number of missions. In fact, I believe your team has even won some awards for IRT missions. Can you tell the audience out there, what is an IRT mission? How do you access that? How do you find those opportunities? And who can participate? For instance, can U .S. Marine Corps Civil Affairs participate in IRT missions? Can non -civil affairs units who may be listening to this podcast, can they take advantage of IRT missions?

00:14:51 BRADFORD HUGHES

I think IRT is open to the reserve component writ large, so COMPO2 and COMPO3. And I think, don't hold me to it, but I think it's also open to other reserve formations. So yeah, the Marine Corps could be a Navy Air Force. But it is a reserve activity. And the Office of Secretary of Defense, OSD, has established the Innovative Readiness Training Civil -Military Partnership Program. We call it IRT for short. And for us, civil affairs, it offers us to exercise government function specialty nets. You know, so the things we need to train on and enhance readiness. And like you mentioned, we first caught wind of IRT in 2020, so in the throes of the pandemic. And there was a community in the Illusion, specifically the community of Unalaska, that wanted to bring in civil affairs practitioners to do an assessment of their community. Kind of a commerce play. The community was divesting or wants to divest from fishing and also try to leverage the national security implications of that region. So we went there in 2020. And I appreciate the shout out. We did win an award that year for the Civ Military Partnership of the Year. And now we're back this year, FY24, and the Arctic and Russia, China, and the United States have considerable interest in the region and the expansion of northern sea realms. There's a nexus there for cooperation or a flashpoint for conflict. So that's why we're there. We're focused on the central importance of Alaska and the Aleutians. Right. The critical role of infrastructure and the grid power competition. And it's really being viewed through our lens as government function specialty practitioners.

00:16:44 BRIAN HANCOCK

Speaking of conflict, while you were there, I seem to recall I saw a news article and also some imagery that. Russian naval units actually came into the territorial waters of the Aleutians there and forced our American shipping out of those waters so that they could conduct military exercises. So it seems like not only do multiple nations have interests there, some of them are burning pretty aggressive in that space.

00:17:22 BRADFORD HUGHES

The activities by those players, our competitors, really have the community concerned and other stakeholders larger than Alaska, obviously. And we're there to provide them the direction. They're challenged with governance. It's just interesting in that region. It's very tribal. We were invited by the Kwajalein tribe. It's a native tribe in Alaska, and they collaborate with the city. So you've got the city and how it's organized, and then they also have a corporation. So they call it the Trilad. And from a governance perspective, we're there sharing best practices on how they can collaborate better. Mention private partner partnerships with respect to grant writing, finding financing, things like that for projects that they want to advance. We can help them. realize some of those things. So it's been interesting. We were back up there in February of this year. I went on that trip. And then we had two of our energy officers there last month. And as a matter of fact, we had a call yesterday. They're working, when I say they, the community on a interesting geothermal project that's tied to the Mercutian volcano. It's an active volcano. Part of the island chain. They want to tap into that. So if that Yeah. Geothermal project is built. You know, what does that mean for the Navy, for the Coast Guard? Would they be willing to establish more of a permanent presence? And that's something the community would like to see.

00:18:57 BRIAN HANCOCK

community would like to see. Given the activity of adversaries in that region, which I suspect is going to continue to increase with the melting of the polar ice caps and that northern sea route is becoming more and more accessible, the Alaskan Coast Guard is overwhelmed. They have more. disasters and rescues than any state in the United States by a good majority, plus a greater coastline overall to manage when you include the outlying islands. So they're heavily tapped. They're probably not going to be in a position to stop aggressive navies. And you know why I love the army. I think we probably need some help from our friends in the Navy to keep our territorial borders safe there.

00:19:42 BRADFORD HUGHES

The community is really trying to position themselves as an attractive basing option for the Navy. And then with just a little bit more color on the IRT program, I think what we're doing as civil affairs practitioners is unique. Typically, IRT, you'll see it on the southwest border. You'll see it on CONUS -based tribal lands. It's nurses, doctors administering vaccines, or there could be small engineering projects, think building a road. something like that. I think what we're doing, civil affairs, we're operating as a consultancy and we're providing in partial perspective that second set of eyes that the community is interested in to advance things that are important to know.

00:20:25 BRIAN HANCOCK

that are important to know. Yeah, outstanding. I mean, there's always one of the areas I was kind of a little bit jealous of the National Guard because they got to do a lot of missions to support American citizens within our own territory. But in COMPO3, we have that same opportunity here. through the IRT program. And I know we're going to be hearing more about some of the successes of your team in that area in the years to come. Let's start with what every ground pounder loves to talk about, which is the role of the military in competition. I'm sure you saw February 10th, 2023, the joint staff published the joint concept for competing. This was actually a landmark document as it represents. one of the first publications in a DACA format, which recognizes the conflicts that the United States and our allies are actually in and will be in for the foreseeable future, rather than the World War II -style conflicts that we have built the force to win. Now, given the Joint Chief's Title X responsibility, one would expect a host of changes across doctrine, organization, training, material, leadership, and education. personnel, facilities, and policy to come from this. What has actually happened is silence from the military community. Very little change has been initiated by this revolutionary document. The joint concept for competing recognizes that the strategy of our adversaries is to win without fighting. So, building large combat formations to go into blunt contact may not be the best investment if that is really their strategy. And when I think about this concept of win without fighting, I have flashbacks to that visual capital analysis video that you presented actually years ago at the Civil Affairs Association annual convention. In the video, it showed how through trade agreements, economic investment, etc., China was reshaping the global order in their favor. Do you remember that?

00:22:27 BRADFORD HUGHES

Yeah, I do. It was innovation as a weapon system. And Brian, before we leave IRT, I've got to let the audience know that you were part of that initial engagement in 2020. And that award is just as much yours as it was the entire team. So if I hadn't, thank you again for that support. It's been a pleasure. Thank you. For sure. I'll try to frame my answer through a 38 golf lens and really. You talk about the future and as the army looks to the future and considers its ability to perform military government operations. So that's what we do as 38 golfs. The army has got to embrace a pool of golf personnel. This is important. We're civilian component oriented, culturally attuned and engagement focus. I like to consider it a cohort of experts with a strong understanding of stabilization activities. Yeah. And I think that gets back to the winning without fighting. Today's military government specialist has the tools required to help the army gain the critical governance support capacity it needs in the face of emerging challenges to the current global order and the geostrategic nature of our competition. And this is where I am building and pushing the team to advance this critical capability is where I hold great passion. And I recognize that this is the six inches in front of our face right now. And I think we've been successful.

00:23:51 BRIAN HANCOCK

I know we're going to talk about some of those specific successes coming up. Continuing to talk about competition, we're going to be in competition 99 % of the time. Sure. We both know that 99 % of the military's resources, including the Army, is not directed towards competition. In competition, it's generally not acceptable to, you know, bomb folks. And the reality is, in the military, it's often easier to drop a JDAM on something than it is to send out a text or a tweet. That's something that I know we're working on. But if we're really going to compete, if we're going to defeat a strategy of winning without fighting, then we have to be able to inoculate civil populations to the type of mis - and disinformation, the type of propaganda, the type of shaping. the type of casus bellies used to invite war, and that's going to require a lot of non -lethal capabilities, including what we used to refer to as information -related capabilities. Within that construct, civil affairs is one of the few military capabilities that's actually optimized for non -lethal influence effects. But I certainly saw the latest R -Struck was published not long ago, and when I took a look at that, at least in the soft cuts, what I'm seeing is that the Army is continuing to buy up risk in competition by continuing its slow program of divestiture of civil affairs forces. We've lost, for instance, all of our Comp 1 civil affairs forces as of FY26. This seems to me to be a disconnect, actually, in building a force capable of defeating the enemy's actual strategy versus what we're resourcing. If you see a disconnect, Why do you think that is?

00:25:47 BRADFORD HUGHES

You know, it's unfortunate that civil affairs is unfunded to the level it is. And I like to think of, I've got to remain positive. And I like to think of a value proposition, again, tying it back to the golf program, where we can realize that value proposition is building partner capacity. That is the vital tool for the U .S. to compete with great power adversaries. We are choosing to engage where adversaries do not. Security partnerships, alliances, as you just pointed out, they're unique and complex, adaptive systems. And you kicked off with this, especially with some of the smaller Pacific Island countries. We've been across COFA and we've seen that these countries display certain characteristics at the local level that are non -linear. Display system -wide emergent properties that our cohort, they have the systems -based expertise, we think at least, to implement building partner capacity through security cooperation, which contributes to the local and regional stability that we need to be successful in this period of competition. And it importantly adds credence to integrated deterrence. And that is the value proposition of the golf program. Civil affairs, again, we are obviously civil affairs practitioners. That's how I think we can be good partners and have meaningful impact.

00:27:16 BRIAN HANCOCK

impact. I'll let you continue your thought in one second. And then, of course, I'm going to ask you about some examples of some of those real world missions that you're doing to these small nations. I know the audience wants to hear about that. It just seems to me, though, that we are very challenged institutionally as an organization to.

00:27:36 BRIAN HANCOCK

understand what shaping is outside of lobbing artillery rounds. Because that's winning without fighting, right? That's Sun Tzu's bloodless ultimate victory. For sure. He is defeating the enemy first, then going to war, right? The non -lethal capabilities of which CA is in high demand, it's very popular, very well received by post nations and partners in most cases, is one of those few capabilities. And it allows us to do those invisible shaping fires of influence that lead to things like access basing and overflight that help us set the theater for conflict if it occurs, for robust alliances, which are very powerful at deterring aggression. If Ukraine had been in NATO, they wouldn't be attacked and in so much difficulty right now. It's fantastic for generation of goodwill. It makes economic sense. All of these things have a nexus in positive, non -lethal influence. Now, with that said, can you tell the audience, some of which are going to be folks who don't necessarily believe in influence, that they believe in hard power, what are some of the effects that you have seen from what amounts to non -lethal fires that you've been doing in DOPECOM to generate positive influence for the United States and for our allies.

00:29:09 BRADFORD HUGHES

You know, I've got three recent engagements as of this calendar year to talk about, but I think where our team makes money is we're able to identify a community -based organization who they're... informal influencers and pick the country, right? And who's to say that when needed, one of these community -based organizations, they may have the ability to deliver results if ABO becomes an issue. I'm not saying that's the case. We're very vocal in some regards. And then we're meeting with ministers and others, but we're trying to build relationships across the spectrum. And you never really know when you might need to cash in that relationship. So I think that's important.

00:29:58 BRIAN HANCOCK

Yeah, but you have to invest before you can reap, right? And I think that's what I'm hearing your civil affairs teams are doing out there in the field. For sure.

00:30:06 BRADFORD HUGHES

And I think that also gets back to compo three, because we just stay on our positions a little bit longer. There's not as much churn as the active component sees. True. We're able to... build these relationships, right? It could be as simple as a phone call or a text or WhatsApp to a partner in the Philippines, a partner in Palau, like, hey, how's it going? And that's meaningful. It goes a long way and I think it goes further than a lot of people think.

00:00:52 BRIAN HANCOCK

For sure, and I think that also gets back to Compo 3 because we just stay on our positions a little bit longer. There's not as much churn as the active component sees. We're able to build these relationships, right? It could be as simple as a phone call or a text or WhatsApp to a partner in the Philippines, a partner in Palau, like, hey, how's it going? And that's meaningful. It goes a long way and I think goes further than a lot of people think. Just checking in, keeping that relationship top of mind.

00:01:21 BRADFORD HUGHES

top of mind. And I understand these missions go well beyond that, actually giving medical treatment, helping set up hospitals and clinics. building out governance capacity. And I'm sure you can give the audience many other examples of stuff your team's been involved in. Yeah, for sure.

00:01:38 BRIAN HANCOCK

We have three team members right now in the Philippines. So we have our ag business team, 38 golf, six uniforms. So they're experts in ag business. And within that group, we have a veterinarian. who's working some animal husbandry issues in the Philippines, and we have some soil experts working with the Filipinos to increase yield. I'm not entirely sure what the crop is, but that's important and that's really meaningful. Absolutely. There's been an interesting mission regarding art repatriation. I don't want to get too deep into it, but there was some art looted. Monuments, man. Monuments, man. So we have a six -victor cohort, heritage preservation. There was some art that was looted during World War II that belongs to Okinawa. The art was discovered in the Boston area. Very long story short, we've repatriated it. And this is across all the KCOMs. This was driven by use of KPOC. But we are sending a practitioner back next week. For the repatriation ceremony, the artists landed in a museum in Okinawa, and the people there are excited to have this art come back. The FBI Arts Crime Division has been involved with this, the Air Force, and a host of others. And we're also sending teams back to Palau and the Marshall Islands to work on CTIP. That's countering trafficking in persons. That is a very important issue. For both these countries, I would put Micronesia in there as well to complete the three COVID nations. We send our lawyers there to talk the legalities of what CTIP is, how to prevent it, and we'll get down to local law enforcement strategies, things like that. But the CTIP training resonates with the people of these countries. Absolutely. This is very visible.

00:03:29 BRADFORD HUGHES

very visible. It touches lives. It builds relationships. And when you look at business strategy, It's also a barrier to entry for our adversaries because they can't easily replicate those missions, can they? I'm glad you mentioned that.

00:03:45 BRIAN HANCOCK

glad you mentioned that. We are choosing to engage where our adversaries are choosing not.

00:03:50 BRADFORD HUGHES

Yeah. And that's outstanding. Let's talk a little bit more about United Action Partners. Part of that shaping I was talking about earlier is going to be building their capacity and capability, not only to inoculate them from mis and disinformation. but to help them weather the effects of climate change and build resiliencies so that they're less vulnerable to adversary coercion and many other things that can come their way. Now, I know you've been heavily involved in this both publicly and privately. I'm just going to make a wild guess that some of the things that we would have to do if we wanted to. continue to build those UAP relationships. We're going to have to start at home. We have to get us the right expertise. There just aren't enough 38 golfs to go around, as you mentioned, but we can expand the capability because the 38 golfs we do have are well -known and can help us foster constructive relationships and agreements with places like University of Fresno, which has an amazing agriculture school, a number of things, Texas A &M. very wide set of sciences there that could be made available to us. And once we have that kind of expertise behind the 38 golf teams, then we're able to expand into many of the relief opportunities that that community is going and humanitarian assistance disaster relief, which sadly is a growing business. There's more disasters than ever, every year, it seems. There are ever, ever greater needs that need to be filled. And then finally, it culminates in full -on bolstering of those foreign partners. Whether that could lead to ABO or anything else is open for debate, but it seems to me that the benefits are many. Now, what do you think about this? From your experience, how should we be going about building up our United Action partners?

00:05:43 BRIAN HANCOCK

The way I'll answer this is to frame it again, start. portfolio missions. And these are the mission sets we use to amplify the value proposition of the team and our stabilizing impact. So if I'm going to do anything before I leave, beautiful. One thing is evolve our partnership with US Army Pacific Security Cooperation Division, specifically to drive our inclusion in campaign plan tasking mechanism. This is a challenge. We have been able to support Army Service component commands, 1st Corps and 8th Army. We have been active working with them. But our portfolio of mission sets, there's six or seven of them. Women, peace, and security is important to us. The innovative readiness training we discussed previously, the disaster response exercises in exchange, the injuries, great opportunity. We have a 38 Gulf 5 Yankee that's an emergency management expert. It's an opportunity to deploy those individuals. Our civil control lawfare programs, like the attorney working CTIP issues across COFA, we have really found tremendous value using our ILOs or international law officers to run trainings. And then I'm going to take this to the three -legged stool. When we're at home, not in Mountain View, the analytic capacity to... do country vulnerability assessments, providing a think tank -like service. We've done so recently for First Corps, for USER PAC. That is something that the 38 Golfs can immediately get around and get it deliverable out within the constraints of a battle assembly weekend. Found some value there. You were talking about the university partnerships, so supporting and advancing USER Cape Box partnership with academia and industry. That's the reachback capability that just really expands what the Gulfs can do. So you mentioned Fresno State, Texas A &M. We have bound by MOUs. Money's not exchanging hands. It's codified in tech. But we have MOUs with Notre Dame, Rice University, University of Wisconsin -Madison, the Milwaukee Water Council, and the Smithsonian. And we're working on others. But the reach back that those university partners give us, it's tremendous.

00:08:08 BRADFORD HUGHES

And not only the knowledge that that represents, but I can only imagine the social and political networks that come with those field experts. You want to open doors. You want to get through bureaucracy. You want to get something done. That just sounds like an amazing resource.

00:08:25 BRIAN HANCOCK

an amazing resource. It's huge. As a matter of fact, University of Wisconsin, Madison is hosting an event for our natural resources folk, and it'll be in the Madison area later this May. We have civil affairs practitioners really coming across the enterprise, active duty sending some. COPPA III is going to make up the lion's share of the attendees. But it's important, and it's a way for the universities as well, that relationship with civil affairs. It unlocks corporate money for them, which is important, and that's money we can also use to conduct trainings and then potentially deploy. university partners, experts in their own right, obviously, to engagements overseas.

00:09:08 BRADFORD HUGHES

I want to put on my mad scientist hat here for a moment, you know, looking at this expertise that's aligned, looking at the complexity of the worldwide mission we have to conduct, which is progressively an urbanized space, and recognizing that there's a capability gap, not just a resource gap, but a capability gap here. The answer should be experimentation, right, and development of new capabilities through total Army analysis or small business innovation research, the various opportunities, grant writing, et cetera, that are out there. So looking at experimentation, I think one of the most important things we need to figure out how to do, and not just for the Army, but for the Department of Defense, for the military, and for our military partners as well, is We're very good at achieving tactical success on the battlefield. We win most engagements that we fight. The challenge is achieving strategic objectives. Strategic success is a little bit more elusive. So it's kind of like we play chess and we take a lot of pieces, but we don't get checkmate oftentimes, it seems. And so we spend a lot of the time and energy getting all those pieces off the board. But at the end of the day, if we don't get that strategic win, it calls some of that. sacrifice into question. That's why years ago, I was very excited when the Department of Defense stood up and funded the Army Futures Commander AFC. I waited for about a year for them to get going. And then I called up a friend that you and I both know, I know six, won't mention his name on the air. And I asked him, okay, I said, hey, can you tell me a little bit about, you know, all this funding we see? Can you tell me? What portion of that is reserved for less than lethal capabilities and experimentation? Now, I still remember his response to this day. It's either really good or really bad, right? He turned to me, he says, Brian, 95 % of everything we work on in Army Futures Command is instantly lethal. But given their enormous budget, I didn't give up, sir. I'm still excited by this. Because I realized that that 5 % remaining actually amounted to probably 10 times the entire budget of use of KPOC. So I was very excited by this. So then I tried to ask him, how do I get access to that 5 % that's been allocated for non -lethal capabilities? And the girl raises his hand and he says, hold on there. The remaining 5 % is reserved for the laser that guides the bomb that kills you. It's just so deflated. I was so deflated when I heard that. Now, that was years ago. And I suspect that this 06 was using a little bit of hyperbole, of course, when he was explaining all this. But fast forward to today, I know you've been working with Army Futures Command. You've got a number of initiatives underway and in some promising initiatives there. Is this still the case? Do we still have a huge resource gap in the R &D pipeline, at least as far as AFC goes, to develop these critical capabilities we need for competition? Is that so? And if it is so, why do you think that remains the case?

00:12:32 BRIAN HANCOCK

That's a great question. And before I get to it, I do want to share that this past Friday, I had the opportunity to see Admiral. Craven speak at the University of Texas. So, you know, he's a former chancellor at UT back 2014, 2015. And as we all know, he is the consummate, been there, done that guy throughout his military career. What's interesting, and I don't think a lot of people know this, Army Futures Command is here in Austin, as are the seven defense ex -organizations. So think AFWERX, NAVWAR. DIU, Defense Innovation Unit. But Admiral McRaven, when he was at UT as chancellor, he was a big part of what got Futures Command to Austin, not necessarily standing it up. I think that was already in play, but getting that four -star command here into Central Texas. But to get to your question, I think one of the greatest threats to national security seems to be the utter lack of appreciation. An ability to adapt to other cultures and build partner capacity. Who is workshopping? People operations, cultural adaptation, informal network building, and partner force collaboration. Everything that we're talking about, call it winning without fighting. Civil affairs is getting after it, kind of ad hoc. Futures Command is not right now. And my challenge to Futures Command is... They need to look harder and consider a cross -functional team dedicated to the human terrain. I think that's the answer. It doesn't have to be a full -blown cross -functional team. I get it. Civil affairs isn't like future vertical lift, nano, precision fires. But I think there shouldn't be some money apportioned to what is incredibly important. We are working some initiatives. We have them cooking with the Army Applications Lab. So that's the lab portion or branch of teachers command. It's a little too early to reveal what we're trying to do, but just having proximity, whether it's the 95th CD brigade, the CD proponent, having proximity to future's command to talk. Some of these things I think is incredibly important. And that's what we're hoping to advance. And I will share with you and hear for the podcast back in school at the University of Texas Hookham, the LBJ School of Public Affairs. Congratulations. Yeah, thank you. Be careful what you wish for. Uh -oh. But my capstone is tackling exactly this. Would Features Command consider some sort of cross -functional team? Again, cross -functional team like dedicated to Army CA. So I'll put it in writing.

00:15:23 BRADFORD HUGHES

So I'll

00:15:24 BRIAN HANCOCK

put it in

00:15:25 BRADFORD HUGHES

writing. We'll see where it goes. I hope so. In the past, I've had those conversations with the Civil Affairs Proponency. The reality is their budget is small and they're very focused on tactical soft missions. Sure. The project was of a magnitude larger than they could tackle at the time. I certainly hope that that bears fruit. We think about it. Winning a battle isn't too difficult. But when you want to win a war. And, you know, I'm not sure what our national defense budget is up to now, something like $850 billion, the single largest, most discretionary part of the budget. And for that price tag, we certainly want to win wars when we engage them. And the reality is that unless you are able to defeat the will of your adversaries so that they effectively give up, because there's so many asymmetrical capabilities, so many powerful small weapons these days, unless you defeat that will. which exists in the human space, not outer space, you're never going to get there. You're never going to get there. And we need to invest in that. We need to understand that. You know, I'm reminded of H .R. McMaster's book, Dereliction of Duty, which I'm going through a second time now. And he talked about the Ivy League thinking that was happening in LBJ's administration at that time, where they assumed that the North Vietnamese had the same mental models, the same penchant for risk, were the same type of rational actor as Americans were, and they could, through the fallacy of mirroring, which we try and avoid in intelligence, which is assuming the enemy is just like us and will respond as we think they will or as we would, and they think as we think, they continued this policy of graduated pressure, oblivious to the fact that the enemy's penchant for risk was, Off the chart relative to ours and that their commitment to communist revolution and ideals was what was shaping everything for them. And there was no understanding or effort to understand that. And you know what happened in Vietnam, of course, that the results were disastrous. So how do we avoid that again? Will AFC help us, sir? Or are you going to have to go out and start a private consulting company and we'll tackle it from that angle?

00:17:50 BRIAN HANCOCK

The private consulting company is always in the cards. So 2014 -15, the SCA proponent, they were working on something interesting. It was the IMSG, the Institute for Military Security Governance. And it kind of went back by the wayside. We're looking to potentially dust that off. And there's a lot of good stuff in IMSG. And that may be a foot in the door. to get closer to futures command?

00:18:23 BRADFORD HUGHES

I certainly hope so. I know that TRADOC OEC, which has had some capabilities in this space, has been downsized a little bit. So definitely a little bit concerned with the future, not pessimistic on the future, but definitely concerned. We can correct the course if we can raise the message to the right audience. And I'm hoping through our combined efforts, we'll eventually get there. We've got a few minutes left. I did want to talk a little bit more about the functional specialty teams. Many of the people dialing in or listening in have access, either through reachback or they're in civil affairs formations themselves and can reach out and touch some FXSP members and interact with 38 Golfs. Let's talk best practices. How can they best employ their 38 Golfs and their functional specialty? Just for one, Quick example, back in 2020, at that time, you and I did some experimentation, actually, where we took the PhD little expertise that you had sitting in the FXSP, and I took myself and some of our civil analytics people sitting in the civil information management team, and we created a fusion organization. situation, the functional specialist teams, they collected all the relevant mission data because of their expertise and ability to know where to look and how to capture that. And then they analyzed and categorized it using their subject matter analysis and expertise. We then took it in the SIEM team, we normalized it, combined it with other data sets to make the N larger, perform some quantitative analysis, and then ended up producing some data. visualizations that were designed for military decision makers, which highlighted progress, managed critical information requirements, mission instates, et cetera. And we tested this together in RIMPAC 2020, and it seemed to work out pretty well. So that's one way that FXSPs can't be utilized in conjunction with a SIM or a CKI cell. But that was a few years ago. You've been at this business for a while. What are some of your other recommendations to the community on how they can effectively employ their FXSP formations to maximize that return on investment?

00:20:38 BRIAN HANCOCK

Yeah, I'm glad you brought up Grimpact 2018. That was like a distant dream, but it was pretty exciting working with you and seeing the 351 deploy at that scale to Fort Island. I think it was a resounding success. As much as I hate to say it, what we've become good at within the 351 that I think sets us apart is we are good at spending other people's money. So if you want to engage the FXSP, if you have a customer that comes with money, irrespective of what the need is, the fact that travel can be covered, that's significant. Like I said, I hate to mention that, but it is the reality that we currently operate under.

00:21:27 BRADFORD HUGHES

But it's still a win -win, though, because when you calculate the return on investment relative to the input dollars, I think it's pretty clear folks are getting their money on what they're spending. They're buying quality. I mean, the work I'm seeing from functional specialists is being printed in military review. I mean, this is the top journal in the country for military experts.

00:21:49 BRIAN HANCOCK

We're chasing those that have money. There's a couple of interesting things that we're working on now. The portfolio items that I listed previously, most of that does come with lines of accounting. And that's what we need in order to travel. We always own the annual training, but we're looking for those travel dollars. But as of late this year, through Defense Security Cooperation Agency, through Institute for Security Governance, those folks... have a need to bring 38 golfs downrange with them. So ISG, I think, is under the umbrella of the Naval Postgraduate School. And through ISG, there's some things that we're going to try to do. Think some of the pieces of security. Think governance. There may be some commerce involved. Bring a golf in a support capacity to help with those experts as a block of instruction is delivered. I think an exciting... potential engagement for us. I was on a call last week with CA Puconet, the 95th CA Brigade was on the call and all the supported battalions. Through what's called section 333, it's an authority that the active duty CAS has access to. It's going to be a building partner capacity type play, but it enables them to potentially reach out to a Western forces and bring whatever that flavor of 38 Gulf is that they need, bring them with them. And what's been a challenge for the active component is accessing compo three. So we try to make it as easy as possible. The rules and regulations behind the RV reserve, if you're not in it, it is just confusing. You know, you got 15 days of AT, you can't do this, you can't do that. But if we can make it easy for them, hey, call Hughes, call Hancock. We need somebody for two or three days, probably longer than that. We need somebody for some stretch of time, less than 15 days to go down range and engage in whatever their area of expertise is. That's attractive to the active component. We make it even easier for them. We're talking passports, theater entry. Those are pipeline requirements that our golfs have to have met, right? To be considered, we call it readiness level one, meaning you are ready to go out the door. You've got to have all that stuff ready to go. If we get the call from The 97th, in our case, in Indo -PACOM, we need somebody in Papua New Guinea with some of the 38 Sierra governance officers. We're ready to go.

00:24:02 BRADFORD HUGHES

are pipeline

00:24:19 BRIAN HANCOCK

New Guinea with some of the 38 Sierra governance officers. We're ready to go. So I think if we can get there with them, it could be interesting.

00:24:29 BRADFORD HUGHES

I can't wait. You know, not only is that an amazing offer to our active COMPO -1 forces and to those nation and to... the country teams and the other players that are involved. And I know many of us have worked for some of these NGOs as well that are on the ground and have good relationships there as well. Sure, a win across the board, but this is also exciting for civil affairs soldiers. When you're at the water cool after coming back from doing reserve duty, what does the average reservist going to talk about? And then compare it to what the folks on your team can talk about, right? It just seems like a great high impact way to do time in the military. And it's a talent management tool for sure. Yeah. Okay, just a couple minutes left. I'd like to end by just talking a little bit more about the developments within the 38 Gulf, kind of where we are with that program. Years ago, when it was started, there was no direct commission program. And honestly, there wasn't a really good progression pyramid for folks coming in. mid or perhaps even early in their military career to serve a whole career and have a progression path to keep moving forward within that space. I understand there's been some changes. Can you just update the community? You know, where is the 38 golf program today? I'm sure there's many folks who listen to the types of things that your team does, who'd be interested in joining. Where is that program today? And how can folks who are interested in this, join this exciting career field.

00:26:08 BRIAN HANCOCK

career field. And Brian, jump in if you want me to expound on anything here. So there are currently three ways to enter the program. You can branch transfer. And that's what I did. I was a career conventional army aviator, felt the pull into CA and generated a 38 goals packet. I was boarded and then I branched transferred into civil affairs. So we get A lot of folks that way. Again, they're coming, they're already in uniform and they're coming from other branches. An exciting development is we are now starting to commission enlisted members who may have an advanced degree and they're going to receive a commission as a captain, assuming they successfully negotiate. So that is a great opportunity for enlisted members. And we've just seen several get made. I think, you know, one or two as of late. Right. I think what's exciting for this audience is the direct commission program. So there are experts out there. And I like to say we're looking for unicorns, titans of industry, people that can really make a difference. They're great Americans and they're coming in off the street. They're receiving a commission as a captain, but based on what kind of degrees you hold and things like that,

00:27:08 SPEAKER_00

So there

00:27:22 BRIAN HANCOCK

based on what kind of degrees you hold and things like that, you could come in as a major or even a lieutenant colonel, only seen major, but lieutenant colonel is not. of the realm of the possible. But what's interesting though, is those folks come in, they still have to be willing. Now you're part of the army. There's some non -negotiable trainings that you have to go through. We call it the direct commission course. That's six weeks at Fort Benning and then a host of other things to get you mission ready. But we want those unicorns, those folks that want to give back, come in as a 38 golf and truly make a difference. I really want to put, stop this again. I mentioned the power of the network. I think we're bringing in experts, but we're also bringing in their network. Right. For example, I'm a 38 Gulf Foxtrot. I'm a transportation officer. I can engage in aviation operations. I can talk about risk, revenue, and safety. Do I know a lot about road, rail, or maritime infrastructure? No, but I know who to call. Right. And - Just in time. That's what - Yeah. Yeah. It's that network. Right. So - We're leveraging as a 38 golf program broadly the respective networks across the cohort. And that's really what gives us power. And a last thing I wanted to mention here is I think it's helpful for golfs coming in to think of themselves as it's almost like the warrant officer, if you will. So warrant officers in aviation or working intelligence systems, they're kind of just doing one thing, right? That's their military track. And I think that's the, although nobody really says it, I think that's the intent behind the golf program, right? You're coming in as an energy expert, right? That's kind of what you're going to do throughout your career. And I think if you come at it with that frame of mind,

00:29:17 BRADFORD HUGHES

frame of mind, that's helpful. Right. You know, I especially think some of those senior people that you were alluding to, and I'm glad that you mentioned that because there's not a lot of places in the army. where those more senior folks who are patriotic, who want to have an adventure. We live so long with modern medicine. Most folks have three whole careers now. This is an opportunity for those folks. I'm getting a little bit older. And one of the reasons I do the podcast is because I have a desire. I've been spending my whole life accumulating knowledge and experience. I figure at least 2 % of it's useful. I want to give it back. But I give it back to the community. Right. Those folks that you mentioned would be willing to as well. And we bumped into, you know, congressmen and other folks that we work with in civil affairs who were attracted to that. So depending on where you are at your walk in life, don't look at yourself and say, well, you know, I'm over 40. I couldn't possibly join the military. Well, that's not true at all. There are opportunities for those who want to serve the nation and who want to serve the people of the world because we go out and to where they are, persistent forward, helping them in their native environment. And I think ultimately we probably learn more than they do from that exchange, but it is an awesome thing to do. And I will tell you that our pacing threat. The Chinese, they don't fear our military so much. They have a plan to deal with that. May not be tomorrow. But what they absolutely cannot replicate and are always concerned about is our ability to build alliances, to build partnerships, to make friends. People want to work with us. And the 38 golf program is part of that ambassadorial flow. Well said. So I really appreciate you coming on the show today. Do you have any final thoughts you want to share?

00:29:39 SPEAKER_00

an opportunity

00:31:04 BRIAN HANCOCK

Hey, Lieutenant Colonel Hancock, I appreciate your time today. It was fun to reminisce about some of the things that we did together from IRT in 2020, and then who can forget RIMPAC 2018. Those were good times for sure, but truly appreciate your time. And please know, and for the audience, the 38 Golf Program is really, I'm passionate about it. I think it moves the needle for Arming Reserve Civil Affairs. It's truly an important program.

00:31:36 BRADFORD HUGHES

Thank you very much for your time. Colonel Hughes, really appreciate you coming on and giving the audience some information that is in high demand. I know we'll be hearing from you again, hopefully, when you pin your first star. I pray for that. And luckily, you'll be moving forward and in our position to be able to shape some of these things that we talked about. Thank you for coming on the show. Thank you very much. All right. Bye -bye. See you.

00:32:02 Close

Thanks for listening. If you get a chance, please like and subscribe and rate the show on your favorite podcast platform. Also, if you're interested in coming on the show or hosting an episode, email us at capodcasting at gmail .com. I'll have the email and CA Association website in the show notes. And now, most importantly, to those currently out in the field, working with a partner nation's people or leadership to forward U .S. relations, thank you all for what you're doing. This is Jack, your host. Stay tuned for more great episodes. One CA podcast.